If you are in a vehicle and have the ability to drive away, then the vehicle is a good tool.

If you are in a vehicle and are in a situation where you can no longer drive it, or may well be forced into a situation where you cannot drive it, you need to be out of it before that happens.

Vehicles are very poor cover, and you do not want to be trapped in one if others have firepower.

Given the situation as it unfolded with the OP, it may have some "teaching moments", but since he and his daughter did not encounter a losing "fight", they did everything correctly.

But, learn, and train, think, adopt better for a "next time".

Glad it ended as it did.

(edited to fix phat phinger typos...)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sigmonkey,

I am 100% regretting my post now.

Maybe mentioning the security system employed at our house would have helped.

I did not expose any weapon(s).

I also live in an area so safe you can and will be lulled to sleep.

I think we identified a threat and kept it in front of us. Everything I have read/seen online leads me to believe that this was a situation where they were idling on the street waiting for anyone to come home.

I think noticing them and not opening the garage was solid.

I kept the threat in front of me and was prepared to defend us. Retreating to me, at the point the vehicle was in the driveway, was not a smart move. Those people move fast.

I had eyes on the threat and had concealment/cover. If a threat emerged from the vehicle I was perfectly placed to engage.

The possibility of some insane flanking move is zero.

An aggressor would have had to traverse through a national wildlife area that is full of alligators to work their way to be in the ONLY position they could rush that side of our home that wouldn't have them nailed. And again, once they entered into the monitored area there would be alarms.

I'm quite proactive of my daughters safety reloader-1-, I've been chill with your responses to this point.

Thanks again for the responses-I have appreciated the advice.

KEEP DRIVING/SWIMMING

Underdog, I apologize for my tone. I brought some trauma into this, and I am sorry.

What’s important is you are safe, and are hardening your defenses. Apologies again.

quote:

Originally posted by Underdog:
I am 100% regretting my post now.

As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be.
Almost everyone pictures an event like this as something they’ve had experience with before, and a goodly percentage forms that picture without even taking the time and effort to read and understand what was described.

At least you gave some of us something to think about, so thanks for that.

I don't regret you posting at all. It gives me food for thought. It'll probably never happen, but if I've thought it out before-hand, I've improved my odds if it *does* happen.

I appreciate this thread. I have no insight to offer. I just appreciate the many thoughts offered.

A car following me half-way up my driveway as long as yours would be the tipping point for me.

I don't like the idea of having the car behind me. That sounds just as bad as being outside the car. And I can appreciate that it wasn't you behind the wheel.

quote:

Originally posted by Underdog:

I am 100% regretting my post now.

No, you should not regret that at all. Disregard the Monday morning quarterbacks, they will always be there, but there is value in prompting the reader to think about the situation and ask himself (herself), "What if this happened to me? What would I do? Do I have a valid plan? Should this be discussed with family members?"

Nope, don't regret posting it. Post-analysis makes all of us better prepared for the future.

Don’t regret posting. I’m very glad you did.

I recently terminated an egotistical young shit. Can’t read or write, and viewed this job as his lifelong career. Couldn’t meet expectations with two years of coaching and training. Promoted beyond capabilities.

He “has it out for me” is the word around this small town.

This thread has given me lots of insight and thoughts of how to defend my domicile if need be.

Thank you for posting this. Your post and replies, and the replies of others has been incredibly helpful.

Underdog, I've occasionally participated in some previous forum threads on similar defensive incidents, but when I did so it wasn't to criticize or praise the actions of the member who posted them, although there were usually both good and bad actions taken to comment on...for me it's much more about lessons learned that each of us can apply in our efforts to keep our families, our communities, and ourselves safe.

I've had the opportunity to deal with and correspond with reloader-1 and he's a straight up good and decent guy. Whether you agree or disagree with his critique or recommendations, I believe they are coming from both a point of caring, and also of experience that are at least worth considering.

I realize that you are now regretting sharing this incident, but I believe you did forum members a service by sharing it and allowing each of us in this thread an opportunity to consider how we would prepare or react if this had happened to us.

If I had one piece of advice about sharing a similar event in the future, it would be to take a day or two to think it over, write it down in a record containing all the pertinent details, and then taking another day or so to decide which (if any) details to share before posting it.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
If you are in a vehicle and have the ability to drive away, then the vehicle is a good tool.

If you are in a vehicle and are in a situation where you can no longer drive it, or may well be forced into a situation where you cannot drive it, you need to be out of it before that happens.

Vehicles are very poor cover, and you do not want to be trapped in one if others have firepower.

Given the situation as it unfolded with the OP, it may have some "teaching moments", but sine he and his daughter did not encounter a losing "fight", they did everything correctly.

But, learn, and train, think, adopt better for a "next time".

Glad it ended as it did.

I don't want to hijack Underdog's thread or drift the discussion too far from the relevant details of this incident so I'll intentionally leave out some important details and just mention that @ 30+ years ago I found myself ambushed on a dark rural road at night with no passing vehicles to flag down, no street lights, rural homes hundreds of yards to miles away, and long before cell phones were commonly available. Even if I had had a cell phone I seriously doubt I would've gotten much or any signal in that rural area.

My ambushers were strangers, they had blocked both lanes of the rural country road with their vehicles, both in front and behind me, and this portion of the road had steep grassy embankments that led to a drainage swale maybe 12-15' below the road grade. I realized that while I could put a few feet more horizontal distance between the ambushers and myself by driving down the embankment, even my 4WD would likely be stuck in there and it would give them the high ground above me, with little chance of escape.

I had good reason to believe that at least one of the ambushers was armed, but possibly more or even all of them were. I had a 9mm in my hand, hidden in the dark, that they couldn't see...but realistically speaking, if shooting started, given that my position and visibility of the threats was so poor, and that I was greatly outnumbered, I was in a fairly poor tactical situation.

I mention this story only to illustrate the point that in the circumstances of my incident, even while being blocked from escape by both the ambushers and by terrain, realistically speaking I had no better option than to remain in my vehicle, even while stopped.

Underdog, I'm glad you and your family are safe, that you are using this incident to re-evaluate your security arrangements and preparedness, and I appreciate your sharing this incident.

Don’t regret posting. The situation is somewhat complex. None of us know exactly what is around your house. The idea of driving on by is a good one *iff* (if and only if) you have identified the threat before turning in the driveway. Once you’ve turned in the driveway and they’re behind you it is a different story. I have considered driving on by as the ranch is gated. If the wife and daughter are home and I open the gate, whoever is following may become a problem for all of us. If I drive on by, any follower can only be a problem for me. That is in my situation. Yours is different and your invisible friends don’t know all the details of your situation.

I maintain that you handled things well.

Others have offered different approaches, and it’s worth considering those approaches, bearing in mind everything that you know about the situation that the rest of us don’t. You may decide that there is value in other approaches suggested and decide to do something different next time. Then again you may decide that while good things to consider, with your situation they aren’t a good fit for you.

Thank you for posting. You gave us all something to think about and so did some of the other posters.

I know you mentioned it to a neighbor who is LE, but please confirm with the agency that it has been reported and put into the tracking system.

Also, ask if they have someone who can come out and assess your security and response from that perspective - they probably have more experience than any alarm company.

You reacted in the moment and followed through on your plan. There is nothing wrong that I can see. If you think things need to be discussed and/or changed in the future, then it is a progressive move based on experience.

Like others have said, do not regret posting. I think about scenarios like this on a regular basis. We live on a culdesac with our driveway coming up and into the backside of our house. Woods on the backside and no neighbors within viewing range of that side of the house. Because of this we do have cameras all around and my wife regularly checks them. We also have a dog out on patrol as well.

Our closest neighbor is good at notifying us when warranted. A couple of years ago we had an old beat up car park in the culdesac and walk through our yard and into the hay field beside our house. No idea where he went as there are no houses that way. The car sat there for days. Weird. We did notify the police. The neighbor followed my wife up our driveway that day to make sure all was well.

Glad you and your daughter noticed something was off and you both took steps to protect yourselves. Was it right or wrong? I don’t know, I was not there. But it worked and you are both safe and that is what is important. Good job on both of you.

On a side note I have a sudden urge for a Benelli M4.

quote:

I don't know if it was nothing, a attempted car jacking, or home invasion.

What could it have been?

At 9:30pm it doesn’t fit with those thieves that run around looking for things to steal from people’s cars. At least according to the numerous news stories in my area, those thieves are out much later when most people are asleep.

The carjackings in the news seem to be quick and have an element of surprise. That doesn’t seem to be the case here.

I’d think a home invasion would also require an element of surprise.

Reading your first post, my initial reaction was they were a lookout for someone already in your home. Reading about your security system in your subsequent posts eliminated that idea. Besides, would a lookout have their headlights on?

Change the situation a little and put one of those lighted Pizza Hut Delivery things on the roof of the car. Now it’s just some lost delivery driver. This is something I’ve seen first hand many times. The GPS gets the delivery driver close and they run up and down driveways trying to find the correct address. I had a plant grow much taller and cover what were my clearly visible house numbers. Putting the numbers on my mailbox post solved this as far as my house goes. 9:30pm seems a little late for deliveries in a quiet type of area.

I suspect it was nothing and the people got pissy because they saw you were suspicious of them. I think actual criminals would have just driven away at that point and not furthered the incident.

quote:

Hopefully you all think I am just paranoid.

Sorry, I don’t think you’re paranoid as there was nothing unreasonable about your suspicions.

Thank you for posting your experience. I had a guy pull in my driveway in Michigan. The drive 900ft so not just someone turning around. When I looked out the window, I saw a guy in his late 60s/early 70s were plaid shorts, a button down collared shirt, and sandals with black socks. I immediately recognized this threat to good fashion, exited the house unarmed, and said hello. He was a neighbor from a few houses down the beach looking for his dog that had wandered off. Could have been an elaborate ruse though based on reloader’s posts.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
What could it have been?

A sensible post that considers reasonable, and really much more likely, alternatives.

There is of course no reason to not remain alert and even take precautions if our suspicions are raised. That’s only prudent.

Something that anyone who is in a similar situation should keep in mind is what laws may govern actions involving weapons. In Colorado, for example, just displaying a weapon may be considered “menacing” and can be a felony. I am personally aware of a woman who was hiking being approached by an aggressive dog and in response she held a knife in her hand: result? Charged with menacing, and although it was pled down to disorderly conduct, she was still considered to be the criminal, not the irresponsible dog owner.

In this case I understand that the trespassers didn’t see any guns, the incident occurred on the OP’s property, and I have no idea what the local laws were, so I’m not criticizing him, but it’s nevertheless something to keep in mind.

quote:

Originally posted by Underdog:
I am 100% regretting my post now.

That's unfortunate. Personally, I'm very glad you did. Your description of the event and the ensuing discussion are very valuable.

"you can go in your house now". I haven't seen any comments on why the female might have yelled this. It makes this incident sound like it's more personal and directed either at you or your daughter.

Normally, when spotted, the bad guys just take off.

How many of us get tactical training weekly? Monthly? Ever? I think it's worth noting that most of us a regular guys with regular emotions. We mostly live in pacific conditions. So when an event like this happens, it is by surprise. How can anyone not in LE or military be expected to perform tactically brilliant with fear, panic, surprise, shock, disbelief, doubt etc. pressing against our decisions? I've been in a similar circumstance three times before. Each time I was more effective but still upon reconsideration, there were decisions that could have been better.

Bottom line, he and his family survived and the nefarious types went to find an easier target. No one had to land in court or the grave.

quote:

Originally posted by ggile:
"you can go in your house now". I haven't seen any comments on why the female might have yelled this. It makes this incident sound like it's more personal and directed either at you or your daughter.

Normally, when spotted, the bad guys just take off.

I did about three posts up. I think they got offended when Underdog got suspicious and gave them the stink eye, hence the pissy "you can go in your house now" when they left.

+1 for you “did good.”

Taking your eyes off a threat, and retreating to your house, seems to be a very high risk thing to do.

I doubt that it was a lost delivery driver. That she said what she did, clinches that for me.

Was she alone in the car?

Yes, not going home/driving through being blocked in would be better, but a girl going home to her father when she’s scared would be instinctual.

For long term thought, you might want to put some of those plastic grid things down in your lawn - they’re about $4 a square foot for ones which can hold forklifts and fire trucks.

Might help to have an area y’all “know” can safely be driven without getting stuck.

Meditations in Violence is a really informative book on how POS think.