Ever since we've moved into the neighborhood of our dream, we've had issues with our neighbor; more specifically the wife. The husband was the commissioner for AYSO and when I coached we got along famously. When we moved in I was ecstatic he was my neighbor; his wife on the other hand not too much. We are redoing our front yard and want to erect a wall on our property to close off a bit more of our side yard. City is ok with this and permits are pulled. We submitted this to the HOA's Architectural Committee and they denied us because the neighbor did not sign off on the Architectural Request.

It is my understand that the neighbor when signed it does not mean they agree with what we are doing, just that they acknowledge that we are doing it. I did go over to their house and told them what we were doing and they acknowledged that we were submitting to the HOA.

Anyone have any similar experience and how they handled it?

First I would ask your neighbor why they didn't sign off, maybe they just didn't send it back in, missed the notice, any number of reasons, sitting with them and showing them the design, materials and location might help. They might think it's something that they don't want to see.

Second, what do the rules and covenants of the association say about Architectural changes, is there specific language that requires a neighbor to sign off for approval. If so does it say that the rules require a specific neighbor, such as this on the side of the house where you are making the change/improvement.

We have the neighbor sign off rule but it's been mostly shelved,

BTW who does the rule require to sign off, does it specifically state you needed your NEXT door neighbor or just any near by neighbor. If that's the case, get someone else to sign it.

Should be some kind of process for contesting these decisions. I'd further see if there are specific rules on what kind of changes require authorization.

Example, changing out plant types shouldn't require a form. Putting up a fence/wall may require it, we do, and it's how we've kept those ugly wood fences from being put up that people don't maintain.

As long as the HOA is consistent and following the rules they are in line, so check the covenants rules etc.

We also live in the OC and have this sort of situation. The HOAs in CA have a tremendous amount of say in Common Interest Developments. This site specifically deals with CA HOA issues.

https://www.davis-stirling.com/

You may find some information there. And they may be open to talking on the phone.?
Lineman

I used to be on the board of my HOA for about 10 years. It’s up to the committee to approve. The neighbor can be informed but doesn’t have a veto.

The neighbor doesn’t even have to like it - that’s why it’s done by a committee. The only problem is if the neighbor is on the committee.

Im on the HOA in my 'hood and basically its a courtesy...the HOA deosnt have any real power to prevent someone from improving their own property. Now if your property is an eyesore and you are pulling down home values around you or are preventing "quiet enjoyment" of your neighbors then liens can be taken out and fines can be levied. Maybe CA HOAs have more power but maybe a brief conversation with a lawyer is in order.

Different state. But in our HOA I had to get signature approvals for pretty much everything from HOA & neighbors.

New fence : Submit design & Get approvals.
Solar Panels : Submit design & Get approvals.
Paint the house: Submit colors & Get approvals.

I believe the requirements vary depending on the exact language of the HOA agreement you probably signed when you closed on the house. And the laws naturally vary by state. It may be that you’re going to have to take the HOA documents to a real estate attorney, if you can’t butter up your neighbor and get them to sign off on your project.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
First I would ask your neighbor why they didn't sign off, maybe they just didn't send it back in, missed the notice, any number of reasons, sitting with them and showing them the design, materials and location might help. They might think it's something that they don't want to see.

Second, what do the rules and covenants of the association say about Architectural changes, is there specific language that requires a neighbor to sign off for approval. If so does it say that the rules require a specific neighbor, such as this on the side of the house where you are making the change/improvement.

We have the neighbor sign off rule but it's been mostly shelved,

BTW who does the rule require to sign off, does it specifically state you needed your NEXT door neighbor or just any near by neighbor. If that's the case, get someone else to sign it.

Should be some kind of process for contesting these decisions. I'd further see if there are specific rules on what kind of changes require authorization.

Example, changing out plant types shouldn't require a form. Putting up a fence/wall may require it, we do, and it's how we've kept those ugly wood fences from being put up that people don't maintain.

As long as the HOA is consistent and following the rules they are in line, so check the covenants rules etc.

They say it's going to block light and view from their window. Their window faces south and my proposed wall is on their west side. And they say our trash smell will go into their house, I've already told them we are not going to put it on that side of the house.

The specific language that I can see: "Signature(s) of Homeowners that neighboring properties are effected by additions: Homeowners signing this form acknowledge they are aware/understand the project and how it affects them in relation to their property." But this is only if we modify Footprint of Original house, additions etc...

quote:

Originally posted by davetruong:

They say it's going to block light and view from their window. Their window faces south and my proposed wall is on their west side. And they say our trash smell will go into their house, I've already told them we are not going to put it on that side of the house.

So it appears they did not sign on purpose, is there a mediation process in the HOA covenants, or rules governing what can and cannot be built.

Everything hinges on the rules and what the HOA and committees are bound to, the rule seems to state that you need the signature of that particular neighbor.

The "footprint" language may be your way to go, how is footprint defined, see if it has a specific definition in the covenants/by-laws.

If you modification doesn't meet the letter of footprint do the rules state you don't need an ARB? If so then you can move using that direction, If that's the case then you can go to a meeting and discuss it with the members of the ARB. You want the ARB folks to agree it doesn't meet the letter of "footprint" so when your neighbor starts complaining to them, they have a fall back.

Best to get that out of the way, then, at the next ARB meeting be there, bring up your argument and see about getting a vote that your request doesn't fall under the rules guidelines on footprint and thus doesn't require an ARB.

If you can meet with the husband, figure out an option they can agree to, allow the neighbor to input on the design in order to get it approved is the easy way, if they are not amenable, and you want to move forward then you'll need a loophole or interpretation of the rules by a good HOA attorney.

Adding to HRK's comments, ask the HOA what the rules are and whether the board can override the objection.

That is, if your request is within the HOA rules, it should be approved regardless of objections.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:

quote:

Originally posted by davetruong:

They say it's going to block light and view from their window. Their window faces south and my proposed wall is on their west side. And they say our trash smell will go into their house, I've already told them we are not going to put it on that side of the house.

So it appears they did not sign on purpose, is there a mediation process in the HOA covenants, or rules governing what can and cannot be built.

Everything hinges on the rules and what the HOA and committees are bound to, the rule seems to state that you need the signature of that particular neighbor.

The "footprint" language may be your way to go, how is footprint defined, see if it has a specific definition in the covenants/by-laws.

If you modification doesn't meet the letter of footprint do the rules state you don't need an ARB? If so then you can move using that direction, If that's the case then you can go to a meeting and discuss it with the members of the ARB. You want the ARB folks to agree it doesn't meet the letter of "footprint" so when your neighbor starts complaining to them, they have a fall back.

Best to get that out of the way, then, at the next ARB meeting be there, bring up your argument and see about getting a vote that your request doesn't fall under the rules guidelines on footprint and thus doesn't require an ARB.

If you can meet with the husband, figure out an option they can agree to, allow the neighbor to input on the design in order to get it approved is the easy way, if they are not amenable, and you want to move forward then you'll need a loophole or interpretation of the rules by a good HOA attorney.

Below is the exact language. My assumption is a signature is basically acknowledgement and not authorizing.

"Request for Additions, Wall extensions, Sheds, Front Hardscape & Landscape:
Required attachments (as outlined in the HOA Architectural Standards. If not submitted, application will not be reviewed by Architectural Committee.)
1. Attach pictures, brochures and/or full verifiable architectural drawings showing placement/elevations, etc. where project will be located on property and pictures/renderings of completion of colors, size and dimensions.
NOTE: These drawing pages will be signed off by architectural committee and project scope cannot be changed without approval.
2. Provide start and completion dates.
3. Provide homeowner signatures on lines below for project that affects bordering properties.
4. Provide any requests for variances with city
5. Provide signed permit and drawings accepted by city.

This section is required for any modification of: Footprint of Original house, Additions, Second Story, Full tear down remodel, Secondary outbuildings, anything that may infringe on the neighboring properties. Large scope projects may be subject to inspection(s) to verify project is being done to approve plan.

Signature(s) of Homeowners that neighboring properties are effected by additions:
Homeowners signing this form acknowledge they are aware/understand the project and how it affects them in relation to their property."

I lived in a community for a period of time that had an HOA. Under our bylaws it was the same as you are seeing under the section that pretty much such says you have to notify your immediate neighbors but it didn't require their approval. I would kindly request to speak with the Architectural Committee at their next scheduled meeting to clarify the wording of the homeowners HOA
rules and in the meanwhile consult with a lawyer who specializes in this area of law.
Some things were expressly forbidden, such as 6 foot concrete yard gnomes,but this doesn't seem to be the case.

I wonder if there is another way to look at this. If it's the wife who has the objection, maybe the husband could get you some rhythm by a strategic gift (wink wink) of jewelry. Just kidding...maybe.

quote:

Originally posted by davetruong:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by HRK:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by davetruong:


3. Provide homeowner signatures on lines below for project that affects bordering properties.

Signature(s) of Homeowners that neighboring properties are effected by additions:
Homeowners signing this form acknowledge they are aware/understand the project and how it affects them in relation to their property."

So it appears that the neighbors are unwilling to sign, and it appears that (maybe) without their signature the AC cannot sign off on the project (assuming this fence falls withing the "additions" definition (which it appears to do).

I would check the HOA laws and bylaws for whatever mediation provisions exist and would go to the next AC meeting to make sure that this above reading, i.e. "everyone must sign off for approval", is correct.

I would draft a letter for the neighbor that says "I have seen the plans and understand how the plan may impact my property. I do not necessarily agree with the appropriateness of the plans, but hereby acknowledge that I have received a copy."

Then, go to the neighbor with said letter and say something along the lines of, "Look, let's have the architectural committee decide--thats why we have one. This letter says you don't like my plans, but that you've seen it--which is all accurate. I don't want to make this adversarial between us, because we're gonna be neighbors regardless of what happens. So lets just check this dumb procedural box so I don't have to get lawyers involved."

Deep in the bylaws, there is certainly a back-up procedure to deal with hostile neighbors. Usually something along the lines of posting a notice to the property followed by certified letter and waiting some number of days.

I think you have to look at the HOA rules/regulations and see if they are required to sign off in order to get an approval. If not, insist that the HOA give you the authorization. If they do have to sign off, then see if you can get them to do it. If they will not, I would assume there is some procedure to have that refusal evaluated by the HOA and you should initiate that procedure. But maybe they have absolute veto power. That doesn't seem likely, but who knows?

Read the rules. You may need a lawyer if this gets sticky.

I have the same understanding with our HOA Architectural review committee. The neighbor DO NOT have to sign the application form. It is more of a courtesy notice to them of what you are planning of doing. Since the HOA AC already denied your application and design, did they wrote down the reason(s)? Walk around your neighborhood and look for something similar that is an addition to the property (that closely resemble what you are trying to do). Then take some pictures and send an appeal letter to HOA and send them the picture. This is how I fought my case with the HOA regarding my paver driveway.

Unless there is a clear violation of the HOA governing rules, they should approve your application. (What your next door neighbor like or dislike doesn't mean anything).

The guys wife doesn’t want the fence. If her husband doesn’t side with her, he will be in a living hell.

I hope it works out for you.

You probably don't want real homeless people to get established on your property, but maybe you could hire some out-of-work actors to pretend to be homeless, and become squatters on the side of your house that faces the neighbor, with an unsightly tent, etc. She might decide that she really does want a fence, after all.

I'd just start peeping into their house with a telescope.