I used to 'collect' KD stories to use during weapons training classes. I think I had five or six real good ones and at least one involved an unfortunate self inflicted death.

Nicely done Chris. I shoot regularly, but these are great pratices for experienced shooters as well as novices.

I think the at-risk people are the noobs who think they can fake through their ignorance and the old-timers who become complacent.

I have learned, don't be "playing" with your firearm, check its function, place in its holster, and do function checks safely.

Not really like clearing checks, but lots of ND's due to people un necessarily handling weapons while carrying.

I have this discussion often with people. It is great that they clear their guns when they pick them up, and before they hand them over, but they should still be following the 4 safety rules. Too many assume that cleared guns can be handled cavalierly. This is what often causes NDs and more importantly injuries. Even after clearing muzzle control is important and if the trigger is pressed there should always be an expectation of a bang.

Part of the problem with gun safety and the lack thereof are the rules themselves. Despite having been a professional firearms instructor for 15 years, I can’t recite “the” four rules because there are significantly more than four things to keep in mind when handling firearms.
When I give a safety briefing that covers just the things to remember and do at the range, I go through a page and a half of items. Furthermore, the “Treat every gun as being loaded at all times” and “Never point a gun at anything you’re not willing to destroy” simply make no sense.

If I followed the “always loaded” rule, I’d never be able to disassemble a Glock pistol because I’m not going to pull the trigger of a loaded gun without expecting a bullet to come out of the barrel at high speed. And because I’m not willing to destroy anything in my house or a classroom by gunfire, I could never even handle a gun there.

When I point out these things to the people who mention “the four” rules, it’s either ignored or, “That’s not what we mean.” Well, if it’s not what you mean, then why say it? In addition, most of the time “the” rules themselves aren’t even stated. I once attended a training class in which the instructor kept saying, “Remember the fundamentals, remember the fundamentals.” The problem was that at least half of the students were new shooters who obviously had no idea what the “fundamentals” were.

Another problem with some traditional rules is that most knowledgeable instructors these days recognize that it’s better to tell people what they should do rather than what they shouldn’t do.
“Don’t point a gun at anything you’re not willing to destroy” is not only impossible to follow at all times, but it doesn’t answer the question of, “Where should I point it?”
Telling shooters to keep their trigger fingers on the frame, receiver, or stock of the gun is a positive message that tells them what to do. “Don’t touch the trigger” or “Keep your finger off the trigger” isn’t.
Even when it’s necessary to include a “don’t,” I always start with the “do” thing. When discussing a dropped gun, I say, “Let it go.” I follow up with, “Don’t attempt to catch it or break its fall,” but, “Let it go,” is first.

The last serious safety violation I was involved in was failing to check a gun that should have been unloaded when given to me. I had a valid reason for believing it was empty, but I didn’t check. I didn’t disobey any other of the rules, and nothing bad happened, but now I go over the several (affirmative) safety rules for transferring firearms in my briefings. We can’t expect anyone, especially new gun owners, to know two, four, six, eight, ten, or twelve safety rules if we don’t tell them what they are and tell them in ways that will make an impression and help them remember.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
Part of the problem with gun safety and the lack thereof are the rules themselves. Despite having been a professional firearms instructor for 15 years, I can’t recite “the” four rules because there are significantly more than four things to keep in mind when handling firearms.
When I give a safety briefing that covers just the things to remember and do at the range, I go through a page and a half of items. Furthermore, the “Treat every gun as being loaded at all times” and “Never point a gun at anything you’re not willing to destroy” simply make no sense.

If I followed the “always loaded” rule, I’d never be able to disassemble a Glock pistol because I’m not going to pull the trigger of a loaded gun without expecting a bullet to come out of the barrel at high speed. And because I’m not willing to destroy anything in my house or a classroom by gunfire, I could never even handle a gun there.

When I point out these things to the people who mention “the four” rules, it’s either ignored or, “That’s not what we mean.” Well, if it’s not what you mean, then why say it? In addition, most of the time “the” rules themselves aren’t even stated. I once attended a training class in which the instructor kept saying, “Remember the fundamentals, remember the fundamentals.” The problem was that at least half of the students were new shooters who obviously had no idea what the “fundamentals” were.

.

While I agree there is more to firearms safety than 4 rules, it is not practical to teach every tip related to firearms and ammunition to every shooter and certainly not all at once. It is sufficient to teach the 4 rules and the mindset that should accompany them. Teaching pages of assorted rules makes learning more difficult and ensures that the students never really prioritize what is being taught.
As far as assuming that every gun is loaded keeping you from disassembling a Glock I think you are being a little too pedantic. The rule properly applied should make a person uneasy about dry firing without at least one more physical check. The rules should make people stop and think whenever there is a violation.
The same could be said about the issue of safe directions. Don't cover anything with the muzzle unless you are prepared to destroy it is a safety rule. To argue that you like your basement wall too much to shoot it is not an appropriate mindset. The argument should rather be that the concrete wall is the most safe direction and a discharge into it would not harm anyone and would cause the minimize amount of damage. FWIW any shooting courses I have taken expected dry fire practice to be done against a bulletproof backstop specifically because of this rule.
Yes teaching the four rules should be more than simply listing them. But the key is teaching a mindset not memorizing a couple sentences.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
A good reminder, but one thing to add:

With a gun like a shotgun with a common tubular magazine, it’s not enough to just cycle the action until shells stop coming out. Rounds can become hung up in the magazine only to be released later after the gun is jarred, etc. If that happens, cycling the action and pulling the trigger in the assumption that all the shells have been removed will result in a discharge.

It’s necessary therefore to not only ensure we don’t see a shell head when looking at the end of the magazine, but to be able to see and feel the follower itself. That’s why brightly-colored followers are a good idea. And the same is actually true of any gun with an integral nonremovable magazine such as many bolt action rifles: Don’t just rely on the fact that no more rounds are being ejected when the action is cycled. Look to ensure you can see the magazine follower.

Something very similar happened at the LGS.
I have a friend who works there. The gunsmith got a shotgun in to fix. The owner said the gun was empty. The gunsmith racked the action and when he closed the action, the gun fired. It had one shell stuck in the chamber that did not eject. My friend took a pick of where it hit the steel wall.

Look - touch - look, wrt to ensure the chamber is clear.

Every. Damn. Time.

quote:

Originally posted by Sunset_Va:
I have learned, don't be "playing" with your firearm, check its function, place in its holster, and do function checks safely.

Not really like clearing checks, but lots of ND's due to people un necessarily handling weapons while carrying.

What was the Sean Connery line from Untouchables?

"Didja check it already?"

"Yeah"

"Well then don't check it again."

ive managed to remain vigilant in my handling skills and have never let myself become complacent and for that I am quite happy. I hate to see old timers and know it alls throw it all out because they think it can't or won't happen to them. At least mentally competent newbies usually listen when we tell them the basics once or twice.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
"Well then don't check it again."

That’s a good line for a tough guy line in a movie, but I disagree that it’s applicable to real life.

Playing with a gun unnecessarily is one thing, but I’ve long lost track of the number of times a question or doubt entered my mind about whether I should check something, and I ignored it only to have it bite me later. We should pay attention to what we’re doing so there isn’t any doubt in our minds rather than simply going through the motions, but if done correctly there’s no reason that checking a gun has to be more dangerous than not checking if we’re not sure.