So, I was able to get on a LiveWire today. I cannot express the feelings of a bike that Harley-Davidson has delivered. There is the reservation of “oh please keep it upright.” Or “is this just going to come out from under me?”. All this was calmed with the demo team.

For the riders that have done H-D demos a bit of a change. The demo team is walking riders through the options and features on the display. There are four pre-programmed modes: sport, road, range, and rain, along with three ride modes the rider can customize. They also put you on a JumpStart fixture to see if you can have some throttle control. Then you are moved to a demo bike ready for the road.

The ride was on public roads today and not a closed course. So safety review before we left. On the bike there are some safety features. You cannot engage the motor with the kickstand down, or the throttle twisted. The display will turn green on the sides if you are good to go. Amber if there is issues with the safety features. The display will guide you through those issues.

Off for the ride, and I started in Road mode. The modes can be switched with a right hand thumb button. There is a delay in switching but very smooth. I was reserved in hitting the throttle at first. But after a few seconds you get a good feel of the throttle control. Switch to sport and you can take off like a rocket. I have to say I’m impressed with the smooth acceleration and getting to 60 on a city street is insane (LEO’s please disregard the last statement) and you will have a different feeling on the bike. One of joy, happiness, or wide eyed scared.

The bike is balanced well and low or street speeds it’s very agile. The course we had was not perfect to test everything, but was a lot of fun. The other modes seemed to work well too, the rain seems to have a much slower acceleration no matter how much you twist the throttle.

Just about everyone getting off the ride had smiles. It’s kind of hard not to enjoy something on 2 wheels this different. Absolutely smooth, a unique whine from the motor. Brakes were responsive too, but you need to get used to using the motor to help with regeneration. Like downshifting, but no clutch usage.

This is just the start of more EV’s from Harley-Davidson.

Feel free to ask me questions and apologize for the format and jumping around the storyline.

Disclosure: I do work for Harley-Davidson, stock holder, and a rider/owner.

Listening to 102.9 the Hog on the way home, and they were talking about it. People who took it out for a test ride were saying it was nice, but they missed the loud rumble.
Paraphrased, but Mitch said they should attach some baseball cards on there with clothes pins to get some noise going like the good old days on bikes.
I chuckled

Ok... I am in if:
Price is 15K out the door.
Range is 300 miles.
Recharging method is simple, plug in anywhere 110 volt system.
Weight is no more than 400 pounds.
Since there is lots of torque, integrated anti-lock brakes, traction and stability control.
I will live with the lack of potato, potato.

The main problem is range and the time required to fill up or "recharge". Once these are overcome maybe in the next 5-20 years kiss piston engine vehicles goodby. Until that they're fun but still just short ride novelty bikes.

I understand that everyone that has a touring bike wants 300+ miles and 15 minute recharge for EVs. Technology is not there yet.

My Breakout with the 3.5 gallon tank would only go 150ish miles on a tank. But for commuting around town it was great. The Breakout sucked for long trips, just not the right platform. For the riders that ride a daily commute of up to 70 miles each way, this would be great. Overnight charge on a 110 outlet.

If battery technology evolves you may be able to replace the cells with new ones and get better distance and shorter recharge times.

You need to remember when Tesla was introduced Roadster everyone scoffed at the $100k price.

quote:

Originally posted by C-Dubs:
Listening to 102.9 the Hog on the way home, and they were talking about it. People who took it out for a test ride were saying it was nice, but they missed the loud rumble.
Paraphrased, but Mitch said they should attach some baseball cards on there with clothes pins to get some noise going like the good old days on bikes.
I chuckled

Or they could buy a Vroom Box.

flashguy

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
Ok... I am in if:
Price is 15K out the door.
Range is 300 miles.
Weight is no more than 400 pounds.

What bike from any manufacturer meets those specs, especially the range?

Versys 300x comes pretty close. (Other than price, it's about 1/3 that.)

quote:

Originally posted by mkueffer:
I understand that everyone that has a touring bike wants 300+ miles and 15 minute recharge for EVs. Technology is not there yet.

My Breakout with the 3.5 gallon tank would only go 150ish miles on a tank. But for commuting around town it was great. The Breakout sucked for long trips, just not the right platform. For the riders that ride a daily commute of up to 70 miles each way, this would be great. Overnight charge on a 110 outlet.

If battery technology evolves you may be able to replace the cells with new ones and get better distance and shorter recharge times.

You need to remember when Tesla was introduced Roadster everyone scoffed at the $100k price.

So will you and 20 to 30 HD folks be cruising Daytona with those during Biketoberfest/Bikeweek?

Current bike is pretty close to my electric bike specs:
2016 BMW S 1000 XR. Bought new in 17 (it was a demo) for 13 K.
Weight: 500. Missed my spec there.
GPS, Full integrated anti locks. Traction and stability control. Multiple ride modes. Adjustable suspension for load.
I fall short in range, but I can find a gas station and dont have to have a cord yet.
Oh... Factory cruise control and heated grips too.

quote:

I understand that everyone that has a touring bike wants 300+ miles and 15 minute recharge for EVs. Technology is not there yet.

It is for a gasoline powered motorcycle. My Honda Gold Wing touring bike with auxiliary fuel tank, 11.4 gallons of RUG total and a fuel range of near 500 miles.

IMO, an EV powered motorcycle is nothing more than an expensive toy.

Harley struggles to fire up new generation of riders with electric bike debut

By Rajesh Kumar Singh

CHICAGO (Reuters) - Harley-Davidson Inc is betting on electric motorcycles to attract the next generation of younger and more environmentally conscious riders to reverse declining U.S. sales.

But as Harley ships its first "LiveWire" bikes - priced at $29,799 - to dealers, there is little evidence the 116-year-old brand is catching on with new young customers.

The problem lies mostly with this "super-premium" product's price. The bike costs nearly as much as a Tesla Model 3, and aims for a market that does not really exist: young, "green" and affluent first-time motorcyclists.

The sleek sport bike has been available for preorder in the United States since January. However, the bulk of the orders are coming in from existing and old riders, according to interviews with 40 of the 150 dealerships nationwide that are carrying the bike this year.

The dealers Reuters spoke with account for little over a quarter of LiveWire dealerships and are spread across Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, California, Nevada, New Jersey and New York.

Harley has for years failed to increase sales in the United States, its top market accounting for more than half of its motorcycles sold. As its tattooed, baby-boomer base ages, the Milwaukee-based company is finding it challenging to woo new customers.

In 2018, Harley posted the steepest sales decline in four years in the United States. U.S. sales are tipped to fall again this year.

The heavyweight motorcycle maker's stock price has declined by 42% in the past five years. By comparison, the S&P 500 Index <.SPX> has gained 47%.

PRICE BARRIER

When Chief Executive Officer Matt Levatich announced LiveWire's launch last year, his hope was the ease of riding motorcycles with no gears or clutch would help attract young and environmentally conscious urban riders.

In an interview with Reuters in February 2018, Levatich said the bike would help address Harley's demographic problem.

"It is more about the next century than the last century," he said at the time.

The preorders, thus far, have belied those hopes, according to the dealers.

"It is appealing to a demographic that is already riding," said Gennaro Sepe, a sales manager at a Harley dealership in Chicago. His store has received four preorders for the bike. All of them are from existing riders.

Harley declined to comment on LiveWire preorders.

The motorcycle maker is not the only company investing in battery-powered transportation.

Tougher emissions rules in Europe, China and the United States are forcing auto companies to switch to electrified models. A survey of U.S. millennial motorcyclists, published in February by the Motorcycle Industry Council, found 69% of the riders interested in electric motorcycles.

Harley's dealers said they are getting inquiries from young customers, but are struggling to translate them into sales. A key reason: LiveWire's retail price.

"Interest is very high," said a sales manager at a New Jersey-based dealership, who declined to be named because he was not authorized to speak to media. "But once you get to pricing, interest is thrown out of the window."

Over half of young college graduates in America, whom Harley is courting with battery-powered bikes, are saddled with student loans that entail average repayment of $200 to $300 per month.

Harley is not offering any discount or incentives to push the sales, either, the dealers said.

In an interview with CNBC television in May, Levatich called LiveWire "one of the best engineered products on the market" and said it was worth its price.

Gary Jon Prough, general sales manager at a dealership in Countryside, Illinois, said the vast majority of millennials cannot afford the bike as LiveWire is targeted at young and affluent customers with incomes above $100,000 a year.

TESLA'S WAY

To drive up sales, Prough and other dealers expect Harley to go Tesla Inc's way: launch more affordable battery-powered vehicles after creating a buzz with the premium model.

Tesla's first electric car cost over $100,000, but prices came down with subsequent models. Its Model 3 now comes with a base price of $35,000 and was instrumental in lifting its vehicle deliveries to a record level in the latest quarter.

Traditional Harley Davidson entry-level bikes cost about $6,900.

The motorcycle maker has plans to bring out four more electrified models in the mid-power, low-power, e-bicycles and kids' two-wheeler segments by 2022.

But unlike Tesla, Harley does not enjoy the true first mover's advantage.

California-based Zero Motorcycles is already selling electric bikes in the United States with retail prices ranging from $8,500 to $21,000. Its top-end bike - SR/F - is similar to LiveWire, but costs nearly $9,000 less.

Still, Bob Clark, a dealer for Zero's bikes in Chicago, says he has not yet sold one SR/F to riders under the age of 35. All three electric bikes he sold to young riders this year were in the $10,000 price range.

"Young riders are environmentally conscious, but are also very price-sensitive," Clark said.

It is not just pricing. LiveWire's limited range is also hampering its sales.

The bike can travel 146 miles (235 km) in the city or 95 miles in combined city and highway riding per charge. An ordinary household outlet can provide an overnight charge, while Level 3 direct current fast chargers stationed at Harley dealers will fully charge the bike in 60 minutes.

This renders LiveWire less effective for longer-distance rides, limiting its appeal among rural riders who prefer touring bikes.

Seven Harley dealerships told Reuters they have not even bothered ordering the bike, which would require investing in a Level 3 charging station and training staff.

An Ohio-based dealer, who had initially signed up for LiveWire, said he pulled out at the last minute as he was not sure of the bike's demand in his area.

DELAYED ARRIVAL

A delay in LiveWire's arrival in stores has left the dealers in the Midwest and the East Coast with hardly a month to aggressively push the bike before the snow season sets in. Winter generally means a lull for motorcycle sales.

When dealers began taking preorders, the delivery was expected in August, but was later shifted to September. On Sept. 30, the dealers Reuters spoke with were still waiting for the first bike.

In a Twitter post on Oct. 2, Harley said the bikes are starting to arrive at authorized dealers. The tweet also carried a picture of the first LiveWire that was "rolled off the line" at its York, Pennsylvania, facility in late September.

With the demand rather limited, the dealers said, Harley has decided to keep the supplies tight in order to protect the bike's brand value and prevent any price-discounting pressure. The dealers said they are all expecting to receive less than 10 LiveWires this year.

James Hardiman, an analyst at Wedbush Securities, reckons Harley would sell between 400 and 1,600 LiveWires in the first year. That is not even 1% of the 228,051 bikes it sold worldwide last year.

"This is going to be largely a rounding error certainly this year and even next," Hardiman said.

(Reporting by Rajesh Kumar Singh in Chicago; Editing by Caroline Stauffer and Matthew Lewis)

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/...iders-102245712.html

Hmmmm, so price and limited range are the deal killers for the Live Wire. Where have I heard that before. The bike owning membership here are rather intuitive to say the least, and pegged this thing accurately right out of the gate.

quote:

In an interview with CNBC television in May, Levatich called LiveWire "one of the best engineered products on the market" and said it was worth its price.

Wow, what an incredibly stupid comment by someone sitting in a CEO's office. No sir. It matters not one bit how well engineered and built this bike is if potential buyers are unwilling to part with their cash to purchase it. Additionally, I think the Harley CEO is missing a key barrier to his company being success with this sort of product. Everything about Harley's image and brand is built around the big, powerful, loud, chrome clad, cruisers Harley has marketed forever and the never ending list of accessories available to their owners. Offering an E-Bike runs completely antithetical to everything Harley has always been about. This is a bit like Coca Cola trying to market baked beans. The product is just not complimentary in any way to what the company is all about.

I have no idea what the solution to Harley's failing sales numbers are, but they are not likely to find it in E-Bikes.

quote:

Originally posted by Jelly:
Harley's dealers said they are getting inquiries from young customers, but are struggling to translate them into sales. A key reason: LiveWire's retail price.

Big surprise there. Lol. Harley should’ve been more focused on their dropping hog sales and fixing that than trying to push an all-electric bike that was never going to sell. Idiots.

$29,799.00 is equivalent to an acre of land in an area in which I'm interested in building. Hmmmmm...electric "motorcycle" or plot of land. Yeah...not a hard choice at all.

I would guess the electric motorcycle will follow the route of another invention that began as extremely expensive but now can be found in the Dollar Store for 89 cents:
The Calculator.
The same could be said for cell phones too. I saw Trac Phones at Wal-Mart for 7 bucks.
But I would also guess by the time they are actually affordable, a battery powered lawn mower will be trimming my grave!

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
I would guess the electric motorcycle will follow the route of another invention that began as extremely expensive but now can be found in the Dollar Store for 89 cents:
The Calculator.
The same could be said for cell phones too. I saw Trac Phones at Wal-Mart for 7 bucks.

'Only' if the product has universal appeal, as each of your examples do. No motorcycle, electric or other, will ever have universal appeal.

This will be a spectacular failure for Harley. They didn’t learn at all from the disaster Victory experienced when they rolled out their e-bike a few years ago.

All Harley had to do was build a bike capable of challenging and beating these two bikes in one race series and they would have found more success and interest from the younger crowd than their stupidly expensive e-bike will bring.

quote:

Only' if the product has universal appeal, as each of your examples do. No motorcycle, electric or other, will ever have universal appeal.

I wouldn't go that far, battery tech will improve, charging stations will proliferate, one day the manufacturers may come up with a universal charging adapter, (I doubt it though since tech can't have one connector for all smart phones for charging)

E Bikes will start out as local big city bikes, they don't need 180 MPH autobahn burners or 500 mile touring cruisers.

Price point is key, for HD to win this they'd need a less expensive price point.

Agree HRK.

Meanwhile after this predicted failure Harley better hope they have success with their other all new (traditional) motorcycles which are the Pan America and Street Fighter coming out in 2020. If they don't get them right the company will be in dire straights and with stock prices dropping more I wouldn't be surprised if they get bought out. Sad.....