I drove my sister's CRV yesterday, since she was blocking our cars in.
The CVT is very smooth & not at all like the rubber band horrendousness I have experienced with the Nissan units.
My parent's Outback XT is also CVT, but simulates 'shifts' in normal driving. The Honda didn't do this, just a steady hum around 15-1700 RPM.

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:
Honda [Civic Si/TypeR]
Toyota [GR86/Corolla]
Subaru [BRZ/WRX]
Mazda [Miata]
Ford [Mustang]
Porsche [911/Cayman/Boxster]

Struggling to come up with any others, on a quick thought, that offer a sporty/performance car with a manual.

Can't recall if any BMW M cars still offer a manual.

BMW has the 6MT in the current M2. And checking their website, it appears the M3 also.

You can add the Toyota Supra to your list as well. 6MT is available but I think this is the last year of it. Toyota is taking the Supra and the GR86 in house, and ending their collaborations with BMW (Supra) and Subaru (GR86).

Then on top of that, I don’t care for FWD for performance applications. Bit of a joke. The Hype R, I’ve driven every iteration offered here, still spins and has torque steer. AWD and RWD 6MT’s are getting rarer and rarer. Scuttlebutt is that Subaru is going to end their production of the WRX soon. The STi is already dead. So less options. For affordable, RWD or AWD 6MT options, thank God for Toyota. I have one of the GR products and that 86 is next on my list.

quote:

Originally posted by rainman64:
Sorry guys, as an Acura OWNER you are wrong my 10 speed transmission on my V-Tech is not CVT.
The 10 speed transmission fixed the issues with the 9 speed tranny.
I still have a V10 Ram that is manual and my Z28 is manual, but on my Acura I like the paddle shifter in sport mode.
You HAVE to use the paddle shifter in Sport mode.


https://www.ahgautoservice.com...-the-acura-mdx-have/

Is the Acura MDX a CVT transmission?

Acura models do not utilize the CVT transmission, but you can find a variety of two different transmission across the Acura brand, with varying degrees of speeds.

So you can keep your Outback with the CVT, but Acuras dont have them.

The Integra and ADX autos are CVT's since they are based on the Civic and HR-V. Their 1.5L Turbo engines top out at 200 hp and less than 200 ft-lbs or torque. The other models make more power and have traditional or dual clutch autos.

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:
I drove my sister's CRV yesterday, since she was blocking our cars in.
The CVT is very smooth & not at all like the rubber band horrendousness I have experienced with the Nissan units.
My parent's Outback XT is also CVT, but simulates 'shifts' in normal driving. The Honda didn't do this, just a steady hum around 15-1700 RPM.

I've heard a lot of complaints about CVT transmissions in general, but I've never felt a need to complain about the 3 Honda CR-V's I've owned. I've always regularly flush/filled the fluid which may help to some degree. I assume the Acura CVT's would perform the same.

quote:

Originally posted by Prefontaine:
BMW has the 6MT in the current M2. And checking their website, it appears the M3 also.

You can add the Toyota Supra to your list as well. 6MT is available but I think this is the last year of it. Toyota is taking the Supra and the GR86 in house, and ending their collaborations with BMW (Supra) and Subaru (GR86).

Then on top of that, I don’t care for FWD for performance applications. Bit of a joke. The Hype R, I’ve driven every iteration offered here, still spins and has torque steer. AWD and RWD 6MT’s are getting rarer and rarer. Scuttlebutt is that Subaru is going to end their production of the WRX soon. The STi is already dead. So less options. For affordable, RWD or AWD 6MT options, thank God for Toyota. I have one of the GR products and that 86 is next on my list.

I was a little hesitant on the Type-S due to the FWD. But it's such an outstanding car in every other way I'm willing to deal with it. And the Type-R and Type-S only come with the manual so they are relatively easy to find. Yes 300+ hp through the front wheels can spin them and there can be a bit of torque steer but they are better than any other front driver. They are not dragstrip cars - they are outstanding road and track cars that can get outstanding lap times.

I do miss the traction of my old WRX's and ability to break the rear end loose if you really want to. But the current generation has terrible styling, a cheap interior, and absurdly huge center screen. The 2.4L makes a lot less power than it could, and the 6000 RPM redline and gearing make you run out of revs too fast in the lower gears and then jerks the driveline on upshifts when you let the clutch out.

Problem with the GR86, Supra, and Mustang, and even Miata is the dealers seem to order most of them with automatics. The GR Corolla looks like a blast, and more like the Gen 1 WRX for peaky unrefined fun, but most are optioned up to almost $50K.

quote:

Originally posted by Lefty Sig:

I was a little hesitant on the Type-S due to the FWD. But it's such an outstanding car in every other way I'm willing to deal with it. And the Type-R and Type-S only come with the manual so they are relatively easy to find. Yes 300+ hp through the front wheels can spin them and there can be a bit of torque steer but they are better than any other front driver. They are not dragstrip cars - they are outstanding road and track cars that can get outstanding lap times.

I do miss the traction of my old WRX's and ability to break the rear end loose if you really want to. But the current generation has terrible styling, a cheap interior, and absurdly huge center screen. The 2.4L makes a lot less power than it could, and the 6000 RPM redline and gearing make you run out of revs too fast in the lower gears and then jerks the driveline on upshifts when you let the clutch out.

Problem with the GR86, Supra, and Mustang, and even Miata is the dealers seem to order most of them with automatics. The GR Corolla looks like a blast, and more like the Gen 1 WRX for peaky unrefined fun, but most are optioned up to almost $50K.

The Type S is a good daily driver. Albeit pretty expensive for a daily driver. The problem with it or the Type R is the FWD limits the car, like RWD limits, in inclement weather. The Type S and GRC are very similarly priced however and it was an easy choice for me. Even my Circuit Edition with TTL and the bs port options you can do nothing about was $48.5k. Still fucking expensive but that is all automobiles and trucks today. All of them are overpriced. Actually I think the Type S is more expensive still. The GRC is exactly what I want in a drivers car. The back seat is an insurance back seat. Other people it’s a deal killer but I don’t like large cars. The Civic and Acura, man they are Accord sized. I was so hoping Honda would have put the SH-AWD system on the Type S. I mean I have it on my truck so I don’t understand them and their decision making. That same car with that super handling all wheel drive system would be a monster.

FWD has too many limitations to me. Lap times are neat but in the real world they are really just fodder. They don’t mean anything. When we do trackdays, nobody gets a trophy, a podium, or a brolly girl to take back home. It’s just the opposite, we are paying to be there. And with consumables, such as tires and brake pads, it’s expensive AF. It’s why I tend to do more of them on 2 wheels rather than 4. Performance application for an automobile, I much prefer the AWD variants as I really enjoy pushing the cars in the winter, and on inclement weather days where I just don’t want to risk it on the bikes. AWD and the correct tires for the season, doesn’t spin, just hooks up and you can blast around turns in the pouring rain. I don’t drive mine to work or take it shopping. It’s for at the limit driving.

The WRX, agreed. Man that thing fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down. The rear end is atrocious and looks like the step ladder on my waverunner. The redline is equally as abysmal but the redline, at least, can get taken care of in the aftermarket with a tune. That low rev limit is there for EPA emissions testing and CAFE regulations. Notice how the same motor in the Twins, spins to 7500. But yeah the center stack is awful as well. That big ass iPad and the implementation of it, is horrible. Thing still drives exceptionally well. But Booby really messed it up with the current MSRP. They are literally trying to kill it off and will soon. It will not last another generation according to some people in Camden. I think Subaru is going 100% vanilla. Same mistake Toyota and Honda made for a decade.

quote:

Originally posted by Prefontaine:
The Type S is a good daily driver. Albeit pretty expensive for a daily driver. The problem with it or the Type R is the FWD limits the car, like RWD limits, in inclement weather. The Type S and GRC are very similarly priced however and it was an easy choice for me. Even my Circuit Edition with TTL and the bs port options you can do nothing about was $48.5k. Still fucking expensive but that is all automobiles and trucks today. All of them are overpriced. Actually I think the Type S is more expensive still. The GRC is exactly what I want in a drivers car. The back seat is an insurance back seat. Other people it’s a deal killer but I don’t like large cars. The Civic and Acura, man they are Accord sized. I was so hoping Honda would have put the SH-AWD system on the Type S. I mean I have it on my truck so I don’t understand them and their decision making. That same car with that super handling all wheel drive system would be a monster.

I was actually thinking about this today while on a run at lunch.
Saw a DC2 ITR yesterday [clone or not, it looked proper]
My thoughts today: Honda should have done an Integra Type S [or GSR] that was an Si clone in a tux
Then have an Integra TypeR that was either a CTR in a tux, or a CTR with SH-AWD.

But, an AWD ITR would probably outprice itself & no one would buy it.
Considering the ITS currently starts at $53k.
The gap between the Civic Si & CTR is about $15k, I'd see an AWD ITR being well over $60k MSRP.

^^^ The Acura TLX A-Spec is AWD in a luxury sedan starting at $50,400. A nice step up from the Integra with a lot of great features. Might suit the older crowd among us (including me)

https://www.acura.com/cars/tlx/pricing-and-specs

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:

I was actually thinking about this today while on a run at lunch.
Saw a DC2 ITR yesterday [clone or not, it looked proper]
My thoughts today: Honda should have done an Integra Type S [or GSR] that was an Si clone in a tux
Then have an Integra TypeR that was either a CTR in a tux, or a CTR with SH-AWD.

But, an AWD ITR would probably outprice itself & no one would buy it.
Considering the ITS currently starts at $53k.
The gap between the Civic Si & CTR is about $15k, I'd see an AWD ITR being well over $60k MSRP.

I respectfully disagree. I bought my SH-AWD unibody pickup from a Honda dealer in Dallas August of 2019. It was brand new, $33.5k. If they can put it on my truck for that dollar amount (look at current Ridgeline prices for reference), they can certainly put it on the CTR or ITS for the same price they sell for today. Honda is just padding their coffers.

I first learned how to drive on a 60s Chevy truck with 3 on the tree no power anything. I owned standards until 2014 when I bought my first automatic. I would never go back, it is just so much easier to just put it in D or R and drive on. I don't see any advantage to a manual transmission, brakes or steering. I like A/C in my vehicle also.

quote:

I don't see any advantage to a manual transmission, brakes or steering.

The advantage is the fun that comes with increased interaction with the driving process. Your post is 100% logical, when considering the motor vehicle as a practical tool for the majority of daily use-cases.

I learned in manual vehicles, and have always owned one. Currently I have a '95 Wrangler that I've owned for over a decade. I had "sportier" cars before it. I don't use it off-road anymore, and I shoehorn it into a "roadster" role. I drive it at least weekly. When I drive it, I drive it for the sake of driving it. I may take it to work, or to run an errand, but I take the long way there, and a different long way back. Better than half the times I take it out, I take it out just to drive a loop of sorts, with no intended stops before coming back to the house. Sometimes my wife comes with me, sometimes my father-in-law will ride with me, mostly I'll go alone.

I'll rip that Wrangler around in ways Chrysler did not intend, and it makes me laugh out loud and emit audible "rebel yells". Like Stickman said: Every car is a race car when you've got a manual, son!

quote:

Originally posted by Lefty Sig:

quote:

Originally posted by rainman64:
Sorry guys, as an Acura OWNER you are wrong my 10 speed transmission on my V-Tech is not CVT.
The 10 speed transmission fixed the issues with the 9 speed tranny.
I still have a V10 Ram that is manual and my Z28 is manual, but on my Acura I like the paddle shifter in sport mode.
You HAVE to use the paddle shifter in Sport mode.


https://www.ahgautoservice.com...-the-acura-mdx-have/

Is the Acura MDX a CVT transmission?

Acura models do not utilize the CVT transmission, but you can find a variety of two different transmission across the Acura brand, with varying degrees of speeds.

So you can keep your Outback with the CVT, but Acuras dont have them.

The Integra and ADX autos are CVT's since they are based on the Civic and HR-V. Their 1.5L Turbo engines top out at 200 hp and less than 200 ft-lbs or torque. The other models make more power and have traditional or dual clutch autos.

And the article says MDX.
That is what I own.
I tow a trailed with my Ducati on it, and I wouldn't tow with a CVT.

quote:

Originally posted by Prefontaine:
I bought my SH-AWD unibody pickup from a Honda dealer in Dallas August of 2019. It was brand new, $33.5k. If they can put it on my truck for that dollar amount (look at current Ridgeline prices for reference), they can certainly put it on the CTR or ITS for the same price they sell for today. Honda is just padding their coffers.

Agree mostly with all of your previous comments too.

I think the issue is the Civic/Integra platform wasn't designed with the intent of adding AWD so there would be major changes to the unibody to add it, and they aren't going to do that for such a low volume car. Plus it adds more weight up front which will make it slower and handle worse.

The TL-X and the AWD SUV's were designed with AWD in mind so it's less of a tear up. Subarus are reasonably priced because they are all full time AWD and it's done very efficiently and cost effectively (one AWD unibody, no transfer case, all-in one transmission / center diff / front diff, longitudinal engine, etc.)

In any case cars have gone up 20% since Biden get elected and haven't come down. Everything I look at is about lot more than I think it should cost. Civic Si should be $25K, Type-R $35K, Type-S maybe low 40K's. But they are $30K+, $46K, and $54K

If I was still married, a GR Corolla or Type R would probably be fine, just like my old 2002 WRX was fine, bugeyes and all. I might even have gotten the current WRX TS for the better suspension.

But as a 53 year old single man with a good job and extensive business travel, picking up a date in a rice rocket Corolla, Civic with a tall fast-and-furious wing, or a plug ugly WRX is not a good look. The Type-S fits the part right and arguably looks better than all the others, and no stupid wings or fake air scoops or other silliness.

I recently purchased a 2023 Corvette Stingray. It has an 8-speed DCT (no third pedal). In Drive, it's auto shift. In Manual, you paddle shift through the gears. Truly, the best of both worlds.

I enjoy driving both my S2000 (obviously 6-speed manual) and my 2018 Accord 2.0 Touring with 10-speed auto. On Sport and paddle shifting, it’s a hoot; and a heck of a lot more practical daily driver than the S2000.

Our 2013 Outback’s cvt tranny shit the bed right around 200k. The only options are a new unit from Subaru or source a junkyard one. Either will cost more to complete the repair and cost more than the car is worth (Subaru quoted us around 7-8k with a new one). I’ll never own another cvt car.

quote:

Originally posted by Lunasee:
I recently purchased a 2023 Corvette Stingray. It has an 8-speed DCT (no third pedal). In Drive, it's auto shift. In Manual, you paddle shift through the gears. Truly, the best of both worlds.

We had a Cayman GTS with DCT, generally regarded as one of the best executed in the market.

It was the best of both worlds and what swung us to give it a try. After 10 years, one of the lingering regrets for both of us was not getting the actual 6-speed manual.

The cool wears off.

quote:

Originally posted by Lefty Sig:
Agree mostly with all of your previous comments too.

I think the issue is the Civic/Integra platform wasn't designed with the intent of adding AWD so there would be major changes to the unibody to add it, and they aren't going to do that for such a low volume car. Plus it adds more weight up front which will make it slower and handle worse.

The TL-X and the AWD SUV's were designed with AWD in mind so it's less of a tear up. Subarus are reasonably priced because they are all full time AWD and it's done very efficiently and cost effectively (one AWD unibody, no transfer case, all-in one transmission / center diff / front diff, longitudinal engine, etc.)

In any case cars have gone up 20% since Biden get elected and haven't come down. Everything I look at is about lot more than I think it should cost. Civic Si should be $25K, Type-R $35K, Type-S maybe low 40K's. But they are $30K+, $46K, and $54K

If I was still married, a GR Corolla or Type R would probably be fine, just like my old 2002 WRX was fine, bugeyes and all. I might even have gotten the current WRX TS for the better suspension.

But as a 53 year old single man with a good job and extensive business travel, picking up a date in a rice rocket Corolla, Civic with a tall fast-and-furious wing, or a plug ugly WRX is not a good look. The Type-S fits the part right and arguably looks better than all the others, and no stupid wings or fake air scoops or other silliness.

The Corolla (GRC) and Focus (RS) were FWD initially, and both companies added AWD. Not that hard to do actually. Having owned the RS and currently own the GRC, the Ford (Saarlouis product, not US) had the slightly better chassis and the GKN Twinster AWD system was superior. But the GRC motor, the G16, is an absolute gem vs. the RS’s Mustang derived 4 pot turbo was poo. Awful motor.

I understand wanting a more luxurious ride. Makes sense. These types of cars, for me, are a corner blaster. Rural twisties mostly, rain, sleet, snow, or shine. That’s what it was bought for, to drive, hard, as it was built for. I have a very cheap DD. And that was my date car when I was single. I called it my decoy car because the ladies, if they whined about it, see ya.

I think most people see a performance variant car as some fun thing to buy. But all they will do is DD it, maybe mash the pedal hard at an on-ramp. If you aren’t going to regularly take turns in anger, pushing the car hard, none of it matters really. You just buy what you like. Vehicles are tools to me. What am I actually going to do with it? I wouldn’t say, but a Vette (No 6MT anyhow), then only use it for commuting to work and running errands. I don’t buy a hammer if I need a screwdriver. What I’m going to actually do with it dictates which model, etc. Just like acquiring a K9. Choose temperament, reality vs. what it looks like or how cool you think it is. My truck was bought under the same thinking, actual use case. I was never going to go rock climbing in it, nor jump it off some dunes in the desert. I tow with it regularly, and use the bed an awful lot. By purchasing based on actual use case, I spent a lot less $ to free up for other things. Never have bought a vehicle for image, or status.

Totally agree on cost, which makes my reasoning even more sound. Vehicles are way overpriced today. Vehicles coming like the Slate EV, should wake some of these OEM’s the F up.

The problem I find on the limited cars available with a manual is almost all seem to be "sporty cars" which come with close ratio transmission and low profile tires. I like a traditional WR transmission with a tall 6th gear for low revs at 75 mph and at least 50 if not 55 series tires for smooth, quiet, ride. I really wish trucks had manuals available heck I'd love a mid trim level Ridgeline, Ranger, or Canyon with a wide ratio 6-speed.

The non-hybrid Tacoma still offers a manual.
But, I think it's only on a base SR Ext Cab trim. Probably 2wd only, too.

Edit: SR trim only, 4wd only. Ext & crew cab both available with the 6mt.
Probably hard to find, though, in stock.

$40k for a base model Tacoma is pretty insane. My 2016 F150 was a bit under that OTD [sticker was $48k].