I haven't built a server since 2007 and haven't maintained one since 2009. Right now I have space on a shared server. It's running outdated software, the IP is somehow "graylisted" for sending emails to yahoo email addresses and the host doesn't care. The only good this is that it's cheap. I switched my business email to Google Gsuite but they are going to discontinue support for the invoice email app that I use.

Is as if I'm running into issues left and right by dealing with an outside web host and I was thinking to just get back into running my own server again so I don't have to rely on an outsider.

Do I really want to do this though? Am I just asking for issues that I don't want to deal with? I'd really like to get back into having a Windows Server but the licensing for the database server is pretty steep. I just don't know anything about running Linux though.

Talk me out of it or encourage me to do it.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mark123,

You mean running? I hope ruining isn’t a self fulfilling prophecy if you say yay

quote:

Am I just asking for issues that I don't want to deal with?

Are you jut thinking about running your own email server?
Just for an ISP blacklist issue?

It's expensive, complicated, and way overkill for the problem, IMO.

Just move to an Exchange Online / O365 account and be done with it.

Also remember that some ISP's block SMTP ports. Mine also blocks 80 and 443 so you can't do a webserver from home. May want to check on that before you decide.

I've been using a hosting service since 1995. I pay about $200 a year, which covers everything: domain registration, backups, upgrades, firewalling, spam- and malware protection, certificates and the rest of the stuff most people don't realize is needed to run even a small site.

Mine is a non-commercial (.org) site. It's really more of a test lab for me than anything else. It's morphed over the years, but I find it handy for everything like hosting my avatar images, blogging, and email services.

Really, in my mind, I get much more than I pay for it. I also sleep well at night.

Mark,
I can offer you space on my server for your website at a reasonable fee per year ... much less than the cost to do it yourself.

My IP address is clean, but for mission-critical transactional email delivery from the website, I route those through Mailgun. They have a free level that would meet your business requirements.

With the combination of G Suite, my web server and transactional emails through Mailgun, we have excellent delivery results for the Grayguns site. That's thousands and thousands of emails per month, and we have a 99.77% delivery rate for the past 30 days. (Most errors are customer typos of their email address.)

That said, I think we discussed your business solution for invoicing customers and I'm not sure if my setup would meet your business requirements on that front.

quote:

Originally posted by mark123:
I haven't built a server since 2007 and haven't maintained one since 2009. Right now I have space on a shared server. It's running outdated software, the IP is somehow "graylisted" for sending emails to yahoo email addresses and the host doesn't care. The only good this is that it's cheap. I switched my business email to Google Gsuite but they are going to discontinue support for the invoice email app that I use.

Is as if I'm running into issues left and right by dealing with an outside web host and I was thinking to just get back into running my own server again so I don't have to rely on an outsider.

Do I really want to do this though? Am I just asking for issues that I don't want to deal with? I'd really like to get back into having a Windows Server but the licensing for the database server is pretty steep. I just don't know anything about running Linux though.

Talk me out of it or encourage me to do it.

Ruining a server to do what exactly? Do you have a business internet line or a residential line at home?

quote:

Originally posted by DonDraper:

Ruining a server to do what exactly? Do you have a business internet line or a residential line at home?

I believe he meant "running" not ruining.
FWIW, you do not have to have a "business" Internet line to run a server.

Hahaha! I did mean running but there ya go. Friggen auticorrect. Hahaha.

quote:

Originally posted by Tavman:
Also remember that some ISP's block SMTP ports. Mine also blocks 80 and 443 so you can't do a webserver from home. May want to check on that before you decide.

I'm clear.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:

quote:

Originally posted by DonDraper:

Ruining a server to do what exactly? Do you have a business internet line or a residential line at home?

I believe he meant "running" not ruining.
FWIW, you do not have to have a "business" Internet line to run a server.

To have a static IP, I do.
It's really not that much more and I'll write it off.

quote:

Originally posted by steve495:
Mark,
I can offer you space on my server for your website at a reasonable fee per year ... much less than the cost to do it yourself.

My IP address is clean, but for mission-critical transactional email delivery from the website, I route those through Mailgun. They have a free level that would meet your business requirements.

With the combination of G Suite, my web server and transactional emails through Mailgun, we have excellent delivery results for the Grayguns site. That's thousands and thousands of emails per month, and we have a 99.77% delivery rate for the past 30 days. (Most errors are customer typos of their email address.)

That said, I think we discussed your business solution for invoicing customers and I'm not sure if my setup would meet your business requirements on that front.

Are you running a Windows Server?

Personally, I wouldn't have it any other way. But I'm an IT geek (now retired), so running my own server at my end of a business class Internet connection isn't particularly challenging.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
Personally, I wouldn't have it any other way. But I'm an IT geek (now retired), so running my own server at my end of a business class Internet connection isn't particularly challenging.

That's what I'm talking about. Asking for a simple permission change is liked pulling teeth. Having others screw up the IP for the rest of us sucks. Changing front-facing interfaces, 1000 other reasons. I just want control.

Another question, is it best to run a VM with Windows and another VM with Linux or should I just run one physical machine and install PHP and MYSQL on the Windows server?

quote:

Originally posted by mark123:
That's what I'm talking about. Asking for a simple permission change is liked pulling teeth. Having others screw up the IP for the rest of us sucks. Changing front-facing interfaces, 1000 other reasons. I just want control.

Well, you don't necessarily need to run it on hardware in your possession to get the control you seek. E.g.: I have two droplets on Digital Ocean servers over which I have as much control as I could want.

Re: Screwing up IPs: Having your own server, whether at home or hosted at a place like DO is no guarantee. If you have enough "IP neighbours" that generate objectionable traffic you can end up in a block of blacklisted IPs.

quote:

Originally posted by mark123:
Another question, is it best to run a VM with Windows and another VM with Linux ...

Not certain why you'd do that.

quote:

Originally posted by mark123:
... or should I just run one physical machine and install PHP and MYSQL on the Windows server?

Not what I'd do, but I have an aversion to MS-Windows.

What services do you need said server to supply? Apparently you need a web server. For a business Internet site? Why do you need PHP and MySQL?

quote:

Originally posted by mark123:

Another question, is it best to run a VM with Windows and another VM with Linux or should I just run one physical machine and install PHP and MYSQL on the Windows server?

If all you need is one service (email for example) then install on physical.
I would never run an email server (in my case Exchange) and a SQL server on the same instance.
I would create a VM for each.
Provided you have enough resources (CPU + Memory) then it is not a problem.

What email server are your considering?

I do MS Exchange ~ while a great server it would be expensive and a bit complicated to set up.
Even with any server you need Certificates, and on the hardware side a far amount of RAM and a moderate amount of CPU(s)/ threads.
IMO, you can set up an Exchange Online (O365 for bus) and still have quite of bit of control.
It won't be a problem with Blacklists and if you already know that if you get on one ~ it is a lot of work to get off.
So you have to create the correct MX records, set your security correctly and have your Certs in place on your own server.
You don't have to mess with any of that with one on line.
Of course I don't how the other types will fare.
Additionally, you could host your own server in AWS or Azure too ~ whatever you want - no hardware or up time headaches and still have your full control.
Good Luck

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
Well, you don't necessarily need to run it on hardware in your possession to get the control you seek. E.g.: I have two droplets on Digital Ocean servers over which I have as much control as I could want.

It just gets cost prohibitive considering the amount of storage I'd need. If I have a physical server on site, I can just drop a new drive in it and go.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
Re: Screwing up IPs: Having your own server, whether at home or hosted at a place like DO is no guarantee. If you have enough "IP neighbours" that generate objectionable traffic you can end up in a block of blacklisted IPs.

It's a good point.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by mark123:
Another question, is it best to run a VM with Windows and another VM with Linux ...

Not certain why you'd do that.

quote:

Originally posted by mark123:
... or should I just run one physical machine and install PHP and MYSQL on the Windows server?

Not what I'd do, but I have an aversion to MS-Windows.

What services do you need said server to supply? Apparently you need a web server. For a business Internet site? Why do you need PHP and MySQL?

Web site serving specifically ASP.NET MVC (I'm running 11 distinct web sites on my current host)
Email (I have 22 email accounts and 332 forwarders on my current host)
Lots and lots of backup storage. Onsite storage may not be the greatest idea but it's practical and would be quite fast being local.

I currently run a few Wordpress sites and I'd need the PHP to run them until I transition them back to .NET. I gave up my Windows server a few years back. Mostly because getting permission changes was proving difficult and the server kept crashing on a daily basis. I switched all my CMS sites to Wordpress and it's been ok but since my host sold to an overseas interest the service has become questionable at best. There has been no attempt to fix any of the issues and that's where my original post comes from.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
If all you need is one service (email for example) then install on physical.

I need more than just one.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
I would never run an email server (in my case Exchange) and a SQL server on the same instance.

Explain.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
What email server are your considering?

Just stock SMTP in IIS.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
IMO, you can set up an Exchange Online (O365 for bus) and still have quite of bit of control.

It's not much more than Gsuite's email hosting. May be a good idea.

quote:

Originally posted by mark123:

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
Personally, I wouldn't have it any other way. But I'm an IT geek (now retired), so running my own server at my end of a business class Internet connection isn't particularly challenging.

That's what I'm talking about. Asking for a simple permission change is liked pulling teeth. Having others screw up the IP for the rest of us sucks. Changing front-facing interfaces, 1000 other reasons. I just want control.

Another question, is it best to run a VM with Windows and another VM with Linux or should I just run one physical machine and install PHP and MYSQL on the Windows server?

Almost everybody is going the virtualization route these days. What I do is run bhyve for virtualization on a FreeBSD server (I claim it's to have ZFS, but mostly because I'm familiar with it). A half dozen guests dedicated to various functions. Spreading things our like this reduces the likelihood of upgrades to application software causing a cascade of library incompatibilities, something that caused no end of hassles when I ran everything on a single server. Windows users call this "DLL hell," but it happens in every modern versatile OS.

You could do something similar with Linux+KVM, macOS+Virtual Box, Windows+Hyper-V, Xen, or VMWare. Some of these approaches require paying for the host OS and/or virtualization software, the choice depends mostly on what guest OS's and legacy software you would want to run, e.g. almost everybody supports Windows 7, Windows XP is another story. I actually think that OS vendors dropping support for legacy software is at least as much a motivator of the virtualization trend as the hardware cost savings (not so much the servers themselves but the power and HVAC infrastructure requirements) or lessened administration.

If you decide to go the "my server" route, you might want to consider making it "my cloud" instead.

quote:

quote:Originally posted by smschulz:I would never run an email server (in my case Exchange) and a SQL server on the same instance. Explain.

One VM for Email
One VM for SQL

quote:

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
What email server are your considering?
Just stock SMTP in IIS.

So you just need to SEND emails?

quote:

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
IMO, you can set up an Exchange Online (O365 for bus) and still have quite of bit of control.
It's not much more than Gsuite's email hosting. May be a good idea.

Yes, MS has a lot of functionality if you can use it.