I’ve been looking for a new tow vehicle but for a variety of reasons, I have been leaning away from diesel engines. Ford’s new Godzilla engine finally released specs and in the configuration I’m interested in, it will tow 16,800 pounds. I’ve researched the basic power losses and ratios based upon elevation and I should be well within the truck’s towing capacity even at elevation with a full load. For reference, I will be towing between 4500’ to around 8,000’ typically (I live at 4500’). There will also be a lot of steep long pulls. For those that know the west think of Ashton, Idaho to West Yellowstone, Montana or Bear Lake, Idaho through Logan Canyon to Logan, Utah. My trailer weighs, fully loaded, 7500 pounds (I’ve put it on a CAT scale a couple of times to confirm my tow weight). Based upon the weight and elevation, would I need the 4:30 or could I get by with the 3:73 rear end?

Thanks!

Just my opinion. I think the 3.73 will serve your needs, unless those needs include pulling from a standstill on a very steep uphill grade, like a slippery launching ramp with a large boat.

Both will work. Their max loads are well over the trucks capabilities. The lower ratio will get better fuel economy, but will work harder on inclines which can lead to additional engine temperature. The higher ratio will pull the load more easily, but will turn faster, burning more fuel, and resulting in a shorter service life. If you don’t need a higher top speed, get the higher ratio. This will also be better with unplanned excessively heavy loads. You pays your $$ and takes your choice. Add a oil and trans cooler if you can.

... some idle conversation follows ...

With the 4.3, where will the 445ci engine powerband and torque be?

Reasoning to me, is that while there will be a higher highway rpm range, shifting to a lower gear for the steep grades will hopefully be at the beginning of the power band, and within the torque curve.

Different tire sizes maybe another option, speedo re-calibration perhaps a necessity ...

Is there a 4.10 option?

The lower gear ratio will also assist in getting that heavy load moving from take off.

Gradeability and startability.

But, that will come at the cost of more gas used.

Definitely, start with the axle ratio, then look to the options for color, interior, accessories, etc.

I would like to think that the choice of axle ratio doesn't affect the base dealer price or argument on sticker.

Others will be more informative and knowledgeable to step in.

Between those two I would go with 3.73.

3.73

With two or three overdrive gears these days you can always downshift to keep it in the powerband.

I'd go 3.73 as well.

YouTube has a channel called The Fast Lane and they specialize in truck evaluations on a steep Colorado grade. I bet you can find a test on your proposed truck there. They do list the details, like ratio.

As a formulator for Ford vehicle lubricants, I can assure you that Ford takes towing capability very seriously. The 3.73:1 axle is very well sorted out. Their towing guide can be believed.

quote:

Ford’s new Godzilla engine

First you don't need the new 7.3 for 7500lb. Seriously the 6.2 is fine with the 3.73 and that load. anywhere.
But if you want the 7.3 there is no reason for anything other than 3.73, again at that load.

I now see the 2020 towing guide is out. The 7.3 gives you a choice of 3.55 or 4.3. And the difference in conventional towing is 300 lb for the configuration I normally use (varies a bit but is not much in any model). In any case you don't need to pay $2K for the 7.3 for your load...

Thanks everyone.

Personally, if I'm buying a truck primarily for towing, I'm going with the 4:30 gearing and deal with the somewhat less MPG.

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
I now see the 2020 towing guide is out. The 7.3 gives you a choice of 3.55 or 4.3. And the difference in conventional towing is 300 lb for the configuration I normally use (varies a bit but is not much in any model). In any case you don't need to pay $2K for the 7.3 for your load...

I'm assuming you got the numbers from the F250 conventional towing section of the 2020 Ford Towing Guide. I believe that whole bottom row is a mistake except for the first column. The first column lists the 7.3 F250 3.55 GCWR as 21,800lbs and the 4.30 as 26,000lbs. I believe the conventional towing for the 4.30 gears should be close 19,000lbs.

What gearing to get is a harder question to answer now that Ford is using a 10-speed transmission.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: trapper189,

Here’s the specs directly from Ford...

https://www.fleet.ford.com/res...owingGuide_Sep26.pdf

According to the above you could tow your trailer with a properly set up F-150 with the 3.5 Ecoboost...As you probably know turbo engines are not as adversely affected by elevation as normally aspirated engines. However, I would still recommend a F-250 due to the better frame and brakes.

quote:

Originally posted by smlsig:
Here’s the specs directly from Ford...

https://www.fleet.ford.com/res...owingGuide_Sep26.pdf

According to the above you could tow your trailer with a properly set up F-150 with the 3.5 Ecoboost...As you probably know turbo engines are not as adversely affected by elevation as normally aspirated engines. However, I would still recommend a F-250 due to the better frame and brakes.

^^^^^^^^^
That has been a concern. A friend of mine is the safety officer for a commercial fleet and that was his exact concerns along with the weight of the 150 vs. a 250/350. I also want something reliable and the 7.3 seems built to be with that specifically in mind.

Having towed near the limit on a number of 1500 trucks over the years I STRONGLY do not recommend it. Got through in a pinch when I was young and stupid and didn't know any better. First difference is drivetrain. Could rarely tow in OD so ended up in lower gears reving the motor for long trips. Plenty of power but beating on the motor IMO. Second is chassis and brakes. The upgrade from 1500 to 2500 is significant. Things like rotors and calipers are significantly bigger and heavier. The jump to 3500 from 2500 is not nearly as big as from 1500 to 2500. Lastly is gas or diesel. No comparison, diesel hauls better but at a cost. Gas motors in 2500 and up should be fine for most towing IMO but again I think it is harder on a gas engine than a diesel.

To me, it's all about insurance when hauling loads.

quote:

Originally posted by cruiser68:
Having towed near the limit on a number of 1500 trucks over the years I STRONGLY do not recommend it. Got through in a pinch when I was young and stupid and didn't know any better. First difference is drivetrain. Could rarely tow in OD so ended up in lower gears reving the motor for long trips. Plenty of power but beating on the motor IMO. Second is chassis and brakes. The upgrade from 1500 to 2500 is significant. Things like rotors and calipers are significantly bigger and heavier. The jump to 3500 from 2500 is not nearly as big as from 1500 to 2500. Lastly is gas or diesel. No comparison, diesel hauls better but at a cost. Gas motors in 2500 and up should be fine for most towing IMO but again I think it is harder on a gas engine than a diesel.

To me, it's all about insurance when hauling loads.

The truck he’s talking about will be at least an F-250. The Godzilla engine isn’t available in the F-150.

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:

quote:

Originally posted by cruiser68:
Having towed near the limit on a number of 1500 trucks over the years I STRONGLY do not recommend it. Got through in a pinch when I was young and stupid and didn't know any better. First difference is drivetrain. Could rarely tow in OD so ended up in lower gears reving the motor for long trips. Plenty of power but beating on the motor IMO. Second is chassis and brakes. The upgrade from 1500 to 2500 is significant. Things like rotors and calipers are significantly bigger and heavier. The jump to 3500 from 2500 is not nearly as big as from 1500 to 2500. Lastly is gas or diesel. No comparison, diesel hauls better but at a cost. Gas motors in 2500 and up should be fine for most towing IMO but again I think it is harder on a gas engine than a diesel.

To me, it's all about insurance when hauling loads.

The truck he’s talking about will be at least an F-250. The Godzilla engine isn’t available in the F-150.

Yes, thanks. There was also a mention of towing with an F150 somewhere....I though at least

quote:

Originally posted by cruiser68:

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:

quote:

Originally posted by cruiser68:
Having towed near the limit on a number of 1500 trucks over the years I STRONGLY do not recommend it. Got through in a pinch when I was young and stupid and didn't know any better. First difference is drivetrain. Could rarely tow in OD so ended up in lower gears reving the motor for long trips. Plenty of power but beating on the motor IMO. Second is chassis and brakes. The upgrade from 1500 to 2500 is significant. Things like rotors and calipers are significantly bigger and heavier. The jump to 3500 from 2500 is not nearly as big as from 1500 to 2500. Lastly is gas or diesel. No comparison, diesel hauls better but at a cost. Gas motors in 2500 and up should be fine for most towing IMO but again I think it is harder on a gas engine than a diesel.

To me, it's all about insurance when hauling loads.

The truck he’s talking about will be at least an F-250. The Godzilla engine isn’t available in the F-150.

Yes, thanks. There was also a mention of towing with an F150 somewhere....I though at least

There was above, but I don’t think he’s interested in a half-ton. I know I’d choose the 250 with the 7.3 gas over a 150 with the ecoboost for towing.

quote:

Originally posted by cruiser68:

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:

quote:

Originally posted by cruiser68:
Having towed near the limit on a number of 1500 trucks over the years I STRONGLY do not recommend it. Got through in a pinch when I was young and stupid and didn't know any better. First difference is drivetrain. Could rarely tow in OD so ended up in lower gears reving the motor for long trips. Plenty of power but beating on the motor IMO. Second is chassis and brakes. The upgrade from 1500 to 2500 is significant. Things like rotors and calipers are significantly bigger and heavier. The jump to 3500 from 2500 is not nearly as big as from 1500 to 2500. Lastly is gas or diesel. No comparison, diesel hauls better but at a cost. Gas motors in 2500 and up should be fine for most towing IMO but again I think it is harder on a gas engine than a diesel.

To me, it's all about insurance when hauling loads.

The truck he’s talking about will be at least an F-250. The Godzilla engine isn’t available in the F-150.

Yes, thanks. There was also a mention of towing with an F150 somewhere....I though at least

^^^^^^
Correct. I want at least a 3/4 ton and most likely the 1 ton just for the reasons articulated. Diesel hauls better but there was a thread (possibly where you all participated in earlier this year) about the inherent high costs of diesel and the problems with DEF systems. Since then, my brother’s Duramax’s DEF system and my neighbor’s PowerStroke’s DEF system have gone down while my dad’s 2011 non-DEF Duramax is still going strong (He won’t sell). I’ve been waiting to see if there was an in between engine designed for towing that, while not as good as the diesel, would be comfortably adequate and the Godzilla seems to be the solution. Supposedly in 2021 Toyota is coming out with a hybrid Tundra but I’m not convinced it will have the capacity I want and I’m not sure I can or want to wait that long. At the end of the day, I know without a diesel I won’t be towing up Parley’s Canyon at 70 MPH but 55 MPH without any issues would be OK.