Key to a lasting marriage: Be selfless. Marry selfless.

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Originally posted by FenderBender:
Sometimes the person you dated and the person you're married to end up wildly different.

Very true. My first wife was given to huge personality swings, for example, when her mother developed cancer, she developed agoraphobia. When her mother died, the agoraphobia was gone. The best thing she ever gave me was to leave. We lived together for almost six years without a problem, six months after our wedding the marriage was over mostly due to her sudden desire to screw any guy who cast an eye in her direction. She has now been married five times (that I know of), none of the marriages lasted for a full year. Money was another problem, she had the habit of spending our incomes twice, both before they were received and afterwards, I went from $100K in the bank to $40K in debt in that hellish half year.

Contrast that with my second wife, we will hit 29 years married in August, and I couldn't imagine being with anyone else. A finer and more splendid woman could not be found.

In my early 20’s, I knew and dated women who were just at the beginning of women’s lib. They were reading Betty Friedan, building careers for themselves.
I went back to my college girl friend who I knew had old-fashioned values. She was a political conservative and I, a Kennedy democrat, had many political arguments. But I changed (I had traveled widely, in Eastern Europe and Africa), and now saw the political difference as insignificant compared with basic values.
We’ve been married for 55, almost 56 years, and are happier together than ever. I surprised myself, but then I knew as a young man that I wanted to celebrate a 50th anniversary. My girl friend of the time said “That’s stupid”. Thank goodness she’s long gone.

I am coming up on 39 long, long, long, long years of marriage. I put myself in the one and done column.

I don’t have all the answers but what I think was key from saving me from a bad marriage was very early in my six years enlistment in the Navy was I that I was not going to marry anyone while I was in the Navy because I wouldn’t want to be married to someone who would marry a sailor like I was.

So, this thread helped me realize the principle behind that - it’s knowing who you are. If you know who you are, then you ought to have an idea of what kind of a person would be attracted to you. Then you can decide if you want to remain married to that kind of person.

And I’m not talking superficial attributes but deep down stuff that people are made of. Not that i consciously worked on changing myself but be the kind of person that would attract the kind of person you want to be married to for the long haul.

My first wife and I were married about 21 years. Near the 12-15 year mark she became evolving to the narcissist from hell. She ended up divorcing me and having the p-work written up which gave me the house and allowed me to keep my military retirement.

She tried to take me back to court to have the divorce decree, which she wrote, rewritten because the housing market changed and I tricked her.

Our children do not talk to her.

my second wife, marriage lasted all of 13 months, hid the psychiatric meds from me and after 6 months of marriage, decided she was well enough to stop taking them. Where she told me I was her second husband, I found out when filing the divorce p-work and going through the process, I was her fifth.

I am now married a third time (glutton for punishment?) to someone who gives more than she takes, won't take or accept shit [from me], and is frugal without being cheap. While she is 10 years younger than I, her ex (of 20 years) left her for a gal who their daughter went to high school with. Yes, 22 years his junior...

I was engaged to my high school girlfriend at age 19. I always hoped for a relationship that would last my lifetime. During the couple years we were together, there was much to be happy about but it became increasingly clear that some of her behaviors would become ever more intolerable and our marriage could not last. I was fortunate to find the resolve to end that relationship. About 5 years later, she left the man she did marry with their two samll children. Eventually, I met the woman who became my wife. We were both committed to a lasting marriage, though at times it was difficult, we both put the work in. 52 years together now, with 3 successful adult children (our proudest accomplishment) and we feel better than ever about being together.

I take this personally

quote:

Originally posted by Fly-Sig:

quote:

Originally posted by FenderBender:
Sometimes the person you dated and the person you're married to end up wildly different.

Truth!

In my case I was too young and stupid to figure that out very quickly after the wedding. I made excuses for her for too long, but eventually the truths started to be revealed.

Yeah, people can be very clever hiding their true selves while dating. While it happens on either side, it happens more with the guys, from all the horror stories I've heard. The sweetest guy while dating turned into a monster once married, "You're mine now".

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
Yeah, people can be very clever hiding their true selves while dating. While it happens on either side, it happens more with the guys, from all the horror stories I've heard. The sweetest guy while dating turned into a monster once married, "You're mine now".

My ex had some deep psychological wounds which she thought she could just suppress. While we were dating she was great. Super smart, beautiful, adventurous, athletic, sexually adventurous. She compartmentalized everything, and I don't think she ever thought of it as taking advantage of me or planning to bait/switch. She was just deeply damaged.

Those wounds led to seriously promiscuous teen years which she hid from me. After the wedding her psych issues bubbled up as a form of PTSD and her aversion to sex. Then I started hearing about her teen years, and then a friend tried to tell me she was stepping out. She just couldn't control the demons.

It is a surprisingly common scenario, unfortunately.

I am currently nearly 38 years into my second marriage. In addition to being husband and wife, we are best friends. That has made this marriage a success. It was not the case in my first marriage which failed.

As the saying goes: Love is blind.

Sometimes the vetting process just fails.
I married the love of my life in 1997.
Met her in college.
All her people were still married to their first pick. So were mine.
Very religious background.
Often stated that divorce was NOT an option.
Well, until it was her idea after three kids and 14 years.
It was a gut punch for me. I really thought we’d be married forever.
She was pregnant by the time the divorce was final (not mine, btw)

I found out that you never really know a woman til you take to court.
Never say never, but I’m pretty sure I’m done. $100k worth of divorce and watching what it did to my kids….if another comes along she will have to be something else altogether.

quote:

Originally posted by darthfuster:
Key to a lasting marriage: Be selfless. Marry selfless.

that's pretty much it!!! It took me a while to figure that out. I am lucky to to still be married but life is good now!!!

Having spent a lot of time with couples who were going through a divorce or had just gotten through, I'll offer a suggestion:

It isn't that your "people picker is broken" so much as you're picking people for the wrong reason. I'm not talking about folks who don't know the difference between love and lust...that's just youthful ignorance.

Many time folks pick someone to relived a previous issue...with the hope they they can work it out this time. Yup, repeating the same action hoping for a different result. Even if the person they pick doesn't have that issue, the picker will often recreate that issue with the new person.

Many folks will pick someone to "complete" themselves" because they feel that they are lacking something. The other person can never fill that need/spot, because it isn't their job. The picker than feels that the one they picked is letting them down so they find another. What these folks need to do is make themselves "whole" first and address whatever unaddressed issues they have before inviting someone into their lives.

An alternative, that I've actually seen work, is for two people who have the same issues (in this case childhood abuse) who were willing to support each other when issues came up and relive that trauma with them and turn it into a supportive/loving situation.

For clarity, I'm not recommending this. It worked for them but they were a very special couple

quote:

My question is why don’t people identify the things in a potential spouse that will lead to a bad marriage before they get married? I understand it in a twenty-something who’s getting married for the first time, but a large percentage of people marry more than once and very often are just as dissatisfied the second time (I know one man who was married four! times).

Like Raylan Givens said...meet an asshole in the morning and you met an asshole. Meet assholes all day and you're the asshole. When the common denominator is you, it's probably time to take a long hard look at your own character, or at least your decision making paradigm.


Being young and dumb definitely doesn't help. I've seen a lot of young marriages fall apart after a couple of years, but there were usually quite a few warning signs at the beginning of those as well...and ultimately selfishness, lack of empathy, and an unwillingness to compromise ended them.


On the other hand my wife and I were 19 and 20 when we got married, and we'll be celebrating 20 years in August. We were friends for years before that, though, and knew each other really well. We got married because we knew we shared each other's values and we wanted to do life together. The romantic stuff was just icing on the cake. I've made some questionable decisions in my life, but that one I definitely got right. She's still my favorite person to be around.

Without going into the long and boring details, dating is one thing. Sometimes it takes an engagement ring on the finger to change her into fiancéezila.

Prior to that it was a “gentle” pulling me away from friends, friends that I had long before she came into my life. My interests, shooting, hot rods, motorcycles, all those were no bueno but skirted around a confrontation over. In fact, when we started going out I was one meeting away from going “prospect” in a M/C and reconsidered as she would not have “fit in” with that lifestyle.

Once the ring went on three years later nothing was good enough. Get rid of my friends outside of her circle. My work situation didn’t meet with her approval, I needed more “status”, needed to sell my motorcycle, get rid of my guns, forget my hot rod hobby, basically she was in a make believe world and I was supposed to go along with it. In fact she had “rules” on how we were to live. I disagreed, living from a script wasn’t my idea of a good time.

A near repeat of a situation one year into our dating raised my alert, three pissing matches that she started, one Christmas Eve, another New Years Eve and the first weekend of the new year and I was done. Tried to talk to her a week post breakup and,the first thing said was “What are you going to do to change?” I replied “nothing, its you that needs to change.”

That was the bitter end. One of her friends kept trying to get us back together but it was over.

My wife and I started dating a year and a half later in 78 and married in 79. She has her faults but so do I.

I can't speak for everyone. Just my own experience.

I was ready to get married and start a family at 27. Found a "good" one and overlooked the fact that she just got divorced. He ex cheated on her. I thought she trusted that I would never do the same. 24 years later, I filed for divorce. She was never able to trust that I would not do what he did and it eventually completely poisoned our relationship. She would probably tell you I was a liar and not worthy of her trust... I couldn't live with it any longer.

Two years later, I am avowed to never marry again. But I miss the companionship so we will see. I hope I choose better the second time if I make that call.

quote:

Originally posted by darthfuster:
Key to a lasting marriage: Be selfless. Marry selfless.

In a nutshell, this.

From my experience the women that were divorced and in their twenties two thirds of them were batshit crazy. I dated three and only one was immediately upfront with what happened and why. The other two, well let’s just say they weren’t as forthcoming, one by the end of the first date told all while the other one was the third date and both were concealing facts unfavorable to them.

quote:

Originally posted by shovelhead:
Once the ring went on three years later nothing was good enough. Get rid of my friends outside of her circle. My work situation didn’t meet with her approval, I needed more “status”, needed to sell my motorcycle, get rid of my guns, forget my hot rod hobby, basically she was in a make believe world and I was supposed to go along with it. In fact she had “rules” on how we were to live. I disagreed, living from a script wasn’t my idea of a good time.

That was the bitter end. One of her friends kept trying to get us back together but it was over.

Mirrors my own situation. Love of my life, fell in love with her at first sight when I was in high school. And I will always love her, but marriage with her, nope. I was with her on and off for 10 years and engagement and wedding was just a formality at that point. Engagement talk and setting a timeline, and the demands came out. Her list of demands. No compromise either. Like you shovelhead, she said when we get married the first thing going was my motorcycle. Then it was we are going to have this kind of house (way too much house for 2 people in their 20’s just finishing their degrees), and it’s going to be next to her job (requiring 90 minute commutes to work for me) and we are only having one single account when we get married. She said “I know how you are you’ll try to have other accounts and hide them from me.” Meanwhile, I never hid a fucking thing from her, zero. I was an open book, and I’m brutally honest. “Hiding” shit is not even in my nature, especially with a partner in life. Then it was you have to spend this much, like a starting price, on a diamond engagement ring. She set the price. I’ve never bought a diamond and never will. Nothing but a DeBeers marketing campaign and lots of advertising 100 years ago to make that a thing. Prior, diamonds were next to worthless. With all this money this and money that, I countered and said “if” we get married, we are getting a fucking prenup. I might as well have pulled a pin on a hand grenade. We argued, didn’t speak for 2 weeks, then she calls and says “I sure kicked that prenup in the ass” and I replied back to her “Well I’m kicking this relationship in the ass.” That was that. Literally broke my heart but I had no interest in entering a prison-like marriage. Fuck all that.

I had another one a few years later where I saw the marriage potential in her. She had a career, worked, and believed that we both should pay for a house, etc. She was real cool that way and a total contrast to the Southern Belles that I was used to dating who would demand a Lexus, fat fancy house, vacays, shopping trips, all that bullshit. But her issue was a man in her past did her dirty, and she could never let go of that situation. And she was already married..to her friends. She had to be around her large group of friends all the time. If it was just me and her, well it could be a Saturday night and she would be in bed by 10pm. Dating her and being a committed relationship you had to date ALL her friends and that wasn’t my bag at all.

After that last relationship ended, seeking out marriage was put in the rearview mirror for me for the most part. I made a concerted effort to date and hunt in my mid 30’s. But I woke up one day, decided to analyze how much all this dating was costing me and it was $750 to $1k a month and said fuck that too. No wonder I can’t make any improvements on my house. It’s all going to this dating bs. Yes I tended to date and pull pretty attractive women but I think I went through 10-12 of them in a row during this period and they might as well have all been clones. All different backgrounds but all a common denominator, MONEY. Each only concerned with what they could get out of me, NEVER about what they could bring to the table themselves. Haven’t really given a shit since. When I need some “attention” I go get it. Other than that, I love my freedom. I do what I want when I want and nobody says anything. If I want to buy something I buy it. I’ve had a job since I was 10, full time to this day. Nobody is ever going to tell me what I can or cannot do with the money I earn. They didn’t grind this career, literally with blood and sweat over the years, get these degrees, and put up with all the bullshit and long hours and stress. I, myself, pulled myself from poverty and no interest in having a female boss at home. SWMBO doesn’t live in my home and I like it that way.