I have been fortunate in many aspects of my life, including my marriage of almost 43 years. It’s very obvious, though, that that’s not true of many people. The divorce rate is one indicator, but not everyone who has a bad marriage gets divorced. According to one AI response, 40-50% of people are unhappy with their marriage, and probably most telling is that reportedly about 60% of second marriages end in divorce and over 70% of third marriages end that way.

My question is why don’t people identify the things in a potential spouse that will lead to a bad marriage before they get married? I understand it in a twenty-something who’s getting married for the first time, but a large percentage of people marry more than once and very often are just as dissatisfied the second time (I know one man who was married four! times).

Why is that? Why isn’t there more, “Oh, yeah, she’s just like my last wife; I’m not making that mistake again”?

What are your thoughts?

How often is it not the spouse that makes for a bad marriage? How often is it "you?" You could answer, why doesn't your mate see your negative qualities and it's fair, but if you've been married 3 times, the problem might not be your judgment of others but rather who you are.

We could go deep on this, but marriage and most everything else we do is the product of unconscious needs, fantasies, deficits and defenses. Things of which we are not really aware. We think we know, of course. Very often, we do not. Or, as Gabbard says, "we are consciously confused and unconsciously controlled." We make the same mistakes over and over because we don't know what actually motivates us, an idea that is intolerable to many.

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Why is that? Why isn’t there more, “Oh, yeah, she’s just like my last wife; I’m not making that mistake again”?

What are your thoughts?

My wife and I have been married for 36 years. Before marriage, we dated for about 3 years. We went to college together. We share a faith. We spent time with each other's families.

Still, it hasn't always been smooth sailing. People change and "evolve". Things have to be worked through. There has to be a basis for true commitment.

Just because someone is 'fun' or 'good in bed' doesn't mean they will make a good long-term mate. I think too many people jump into marriage thinking it's all going to be good times. During the courtship phase, it probably is.

When times get tough, and they will, you have to be able to put the other person's needs ahead of your own sometimes.

As Dan says, above: How often is it not the spouse that makes for a bad marriage? How often is it "you?"

Most people are selfish. That's normal. Marriage requires a deeper level of commitment that overcomes our selfishness. Some people can't or just won't do that. Not the first time and not the second or third time.

Many, many people never mature in any meaningful way. Too many people have the mindset that everything has to be my-way-or-the-highway. Life is better if you're able to make reasonable compromises.

I'm not talking about the big stuff. If you're not aligned on that you shouldn't marry each other in the first place.

You cannot always identify a bad spouse before marriage. People change. This is especially true if you're getting married in your late teens and early to mid 20s, like most folks. 22 year old you is very different from 42 year old you, with different wants and needs.

Also, it seems like lots of people don't really know what they want from a spouse, at least for their first marriage. I know that was partly true for me. Younger folks prioritize "feelings" and "desires", not stuff like "Does she have the same financial outlook on life as me".

Then you also have to factor in stuff like loneliness/desperation, codependency, convenience, fear of uncertainty and change, etc. These types of factors often can causes some people to make less than ideal decisions when it comes to relationships and marriage.

I'm recently divorced and I will never marry again. I know most people say that after a divorce, but what is the benefit to getting married? Everything to lose with nothing to gain.


There's a lot of information, podcasts and stories out there, one would think it's enough to stop people from getting married again, but it does not.

I know someone who has been divorced 3 times and has married once again.


After being married just shy of 20 years with another 10 years prior dating, I have absolutely no desire to do that again.

You can do the EXACT same things as a married couple without that certificate.


Why is it so hard to get divorced, but so EASY to get married? Ever think about that? The system is designed to keep unhappy people together. Stay and be miserable VS. not have to pay alimony and lose it all. There is nothing "family" about "family" court.


One has to understand how us men are bred. We go to work and provide a life for our family. We take the ups and downs without saying anything. We absorb all the bull$hit and keep it moving. We go to work to provide, but then it becomes an issue when we can't make certain events whether it be for our kids or social gatherings. We do our best because I have to believe that we all WANT to be there for our kids events, but it's just not possible all the time. Spouse gets fed up and the man looses it all in the divorce simple because he is working to provide a great life for his family. Now the court sees fit to take most of his paycheck leaving him barely enough to provide a life for himself. I see it all the time!


I do see the culture is changing. Men are smartening up and choosing not to get married only to loose it all.


I could go on and on............

I think some people are just not suited to the demands of a successful marriage.

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After being married just shy of 20 years with another 10 years prior dating, I have absolutely no desire to do that again.
You can do the EXACT same things as a married couple without that certificate.

Why is it so hard to get divorced, but so EASY to get married? Ever think about that? The system is designed to keep unhappy people together. Stay and be miserable VS. not have to pay alimony and lose it all. There is nothing "family" about "family" court.

I'm sorry it was rough for you...

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I do see the culture is changing. Men are smartening up and choosing not to get married only to loose it all.

Yes, marriage rates and family formation are radically declining. It's a shame because the family is the basis of a peaceful society. Where there is no family formation, there is no natural structure. But in the absence of the family, gangs form. Violence and crime become widespread.

My brother was married and divorced three times before he was thirty, even had a few other live-ins during that time.

There is one common denominator in each of the above relationships, my brother.

He has been married now to the same person for twenty years.

I've been married 45 years . God forbid anything happens to my wife , I wouldn't even consider getting another wife . Not even a steady girlfriend .I probably wouldn't even date again .
A good friend of mine lost his wife about 10 years ago . He dated a few women and now seems to have found a girl that is pretty compatible with him . No small feat . The problem is , they are joined at the hip . We used to go to the range about once a month and now he's always busy with her . I'm glad he's happy but that's too much of a commitment for me .

I have a very close bud that just got married for the 5th time about 10mos ago. Yes, I said FIFTH, ...1,2,3,4,5 times. I disliked every single one of the 4 prior to this one and told him that directly. The guy is only 57yrs old. He allows these women to pick him. He has a great career, nice home, several high-end cars and is genuinely a nice guy. 33rd Mason and a spiritual man too, but clearly very insecure with himself.

If a woman likes him, she gets keys to the house and cars in days and he just does what she says. Very weak man. I tell him what I told my kids when they were pre-teens and starting to build friendships. YOU choose, don't be chosen. It's nice that people like you, but it doesn't mean you have to like them back the same way. CHOOSE for yourself.

I think it's insecurity. Everyone wants someone in their life, and I get that, but to just settle for anything so you can call a person your person is nuts to me.

I heard my father tell my brother (mentioned in a reply above) "Boy, every time you get an erection, you think you are in love."

Sometimes the person you dated and the person you're married to end up wildly different.

Obviously, my opinion is very non-scientific but it is based on observation over my 50+ years.

The majority of adults I’ve encountered are immature, insecure, self-centered brats. Once the shine wears off that new toy, they realize they know nothing substantial about the new “love of their life” and in many cases can’t stand the person. The problem is then compounded by the desire not to be seen as the bad person so both people hang on hoping the other will leave.

Been with the same woman for 25 years, married 23 of them this August. I’ve been a jackass on more than a few occasions. She’s tested my patience a few times. When we spend the time to talk, all things get resolved. The rough parts are when we stopped talking.

Some people are simply bad judges of character. They wouldn’t see a red flag if you beat them with it. There are also a lot of people that have their priorities mixed up. I think what most couples lack, is a strong commitment to stay married. Unless both people have that determination to stick it out through all of life’s problems, the marriage won’t last.
I’ve been married for 28 years, and there have been some really rough times, but we’ve stuck with it, and it’s always paid off.
Oh, and if a potential mate has a personality trait that bothers you, most likely it will only get worse. You’re not going to change them.

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Originally posted by sigfreund:
My question is why don’t people identify the things in a potential spouse that will lead to a bad marriage before they get married?

I understand that everyone else may think this is crazy, but it is possible that for at least some people that’s the wrong question. For at least some people, I would think the question should be, “If I couldn’t figure it out with this person, what makes me think I could figure it with another?”

Edited to add a couple things.

“For many, a second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.”

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You can do the EXACT same things as a married couple without that certificate.

Make sure you understand the laws where you do that lest you end paying palimony like Lee Marvin.

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Originally posted by FenderBender:
Sometimes the person you dated and the person you're married to end up wildly different.

Truth!

In my case I was too young and stupid to figure that out very quickly after the wedding. I made excuses for her for too long, but eventually the truths started to be revealed.

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Originally posted by slosig:
Make sure you understand the laws where you do that lest you end paying palimony like Lee Marvin.

Lee Marvin won the suit. He never paid "palimony", though she tried.

In fact, I can't find an example of a high-profile case in which so-called "palimony" actually was successfully awarded by a court, at least with a quick Google. All the celebrity palimony suits seem to have failed or been dismissed, although some of them did receive out of court settlements for undisclosed amounts, much like how big companies will sometimes settle frivolous suits with "go away money" just to save on the legal expenses.

And it's possible that some folks out there may have been successful and it just didn't make the news because neither party was famous. It's also very likely state-dependent. Perhaps one of the members of the Sigforum Bar may chime in with a glimpse into palimony precedence.

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Originally posted by r8rs4lf:

You can do the EXACT same things as a married couple without that certificate.

Not true. There are some issues where not being official is a problem. Legal barriers exist wrt some medical, hospital, children/grandchildren, travel, insurance (costs and coverage), taxes, and inheritances. Most of those can be solved with robust documents, money, and some hassle before being needed.

An unmarried same-sex long term couple we are good friends with have had these problems.

There can be significant family frictions around money, inheritance, time spent with kids/grandkids etc when the couple is not seen as "married". Dad's new girlfriend is freeloading by living in his house. Mom's boyfriend convinced her to move, which means she spends less time with her own grandkids.

When a couple is married there is recognition they are a unit which has its own needs, which reduces those frictions.

My best friend's dad gave us one piece of advice on marriage. Good sex is 10% of a marriage, bad sex is 90% .

My first wife and I didn't even have sex on our honeymoon, should have called it quits right then, lasted 3 years with counciling then found out she batted from other side of the plate. Turns out I was what the head shrinker called a vallidator. I was 22 and stupid at the time.

Had a few rebound relationships, then found the love ofy life for the last almost 29 years. I was sure glad when I passed the 3 year mark so I knew the first one wasn't my fault.

Tommy