quote:

Originally posted by Tonydec:
Reports are 6 MOP's on Fordow, so someone believed it could have been very deep.

If Some is Good, and More is Better.....then Too Much is Just Enough!

Apparently not deep enough.

Has anyone seen a BDA on the site? I would love to see some before and after pictures.

quote:

Originally posted by smlsig:
Has anyone seen a BDA on the site?

Good question, but what will pictures demonstrate, especially to nonspecialists? How do we know that the site was destroyed, other than assuming? It isn’t as if we’re talking about the Hamburg railyards. If that bomb was a do-all, end-all, why six? Did the planners decide to drop one after another in succession in hopes of penetrating far enough because they weren’t certain of what the results would be?

Question:
How far below ground is the Fordow Nuclear facility in Iran?

Answer:
Six bombs deep.

Israel does have some American supplied bunker busters but nothing the weight of a GBU57. I am guessing since the payload of a B2 is 40,000 pounds and 167,000 pounds of the jets weight is fuel, they likely lifted off light on fuel and air refueled less than capacity. Two of those bombs weigh in at near 60,000 pounds. Another interesting tid bit of the bomb is the greatest percentage of its weight is hardened steel as it houses a mere 5,300 pounds of two different explosives. Internet states 60 meters penetration on reinforced concrete but just 200 feet of earth. That probably why 6 units dropped on target. Those early Air Force deep penetrator, made from 16 inch ship gun barrels went something just over 100 feet into the desert floor.

How far below ground is was the Fordow Nuclear facility in Iran?

Fixed it for you...

14 MOPs were used. And, if you take into consideration the crater dimensions, you can probably say Fordow is now at ground level!

[/QUOTE]If that bomb was a do-all, end-all, why six? Did the planners decide to drop one after another in succession in hopes of penetrating far enough because they weren’t certain of what the results would be?[/QUOTE]

Who wants a half a box of bombs sitting on the shelf? How often are you at the range and just say f’it and dump the rest of the mag?

quote:

Originally posted by reflex/deflex 64:

If that bomb was a do-all, end-all, why six? Did the planners decide to drop one after another in succession in hopes of penetrating far enough because they weren’t certain of what the results would be?[/QUOTE]

Of course. If each bomb can penetrate up to 60 meters, if you get 40 or 50 meters of “stuff” out of the way with bomb #1, then bomb #2 can go that much deeper. Diameter of the crater likely determines how many in sequence you can use before you get diminishing returns of additional depth.

quote:

How far below ground is the Fordow Nuclear facility in Iran?

Not as far as it used to be!

Why six? maybe not to get deeper, but to get wider. The lab was very likely to not have been a single cavern, but more likely a chain of them.

^^ 14 MOPs, AND more than TWENTY-FOUR Tomahawk Missiles were used...Too much, or just enough?

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund: If that bomb was a do-all, end-all, why six?

I have shot/dropped hundreds of missiles and rockets and bombs in combat. One lesson that is always true: shoot more than you think you need.

Many reasons- challenges with BDA, potential for weapon malfunction, limited window of target vulnerability, etc. It’s a terrible feeling to land with ordinance having failed to kill the target, knowing you would have succeeded if you dropped what you had when you could have.

Interesting video from last Thursday...

https://x.com/amuse/status/1935666149519217046

Boeing stock has not been doing so good lately because of aircraft issues, but now I might have to rethink buying some on Monday.

quote:

Originally posted by arabiancowboy:

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund: If that bomb was a do-all, end-all, why six?

shoot more than you think you need.

Of course. That was another of my evidently not-so-comprehensible rhetorical questions.

I was referring to the somewhat hyped-up common belief that it is a do-all, end-all weapon. If in fact as mentioned above it is capable of penetrating 60 meters of reinforced concrete and the facility was 300 (or more) meters below solid rock, then six might not have been any too many.

I remember reading about the circumstances of the US dropping the MOAB (Massive Ordnance Air Blast) bomb in Afghanistan and although it was perceived in advance as being another end-all weapon, the results were very disappointing to all who observed it. That and other reasons are why I am sometimes skeptical about certain claims.

Regarding the need to use 6 bombs I’m sure you have seen the layout schematics of Fordow. There are several distinct “arms” jutting out so it could possibly mean that there were actually more than one target in the Fordow complex that was hit…

Just a theory.

quote:

Originally posted by smlsig:
There are several distinct “arms” jutting out so it could possibly mean that there were actually more than one target in the Fordow complex that was hit…

Good point. I just noticed that in General Caine’s briefing he mentioned bombs being dropped at “the first of several aimpoints” at Fordow which might support your speculation.

There’s neat pictures in this article: CBS News Link. They show before and after pictures of Fordow and there are two groups of three holes meaning there were probably two underground facilities targeted that were three bombs deep.

What’s the MOA of those three shot groups from 7.5 miles? Looks like good shooting.

Thanks for those pictures.