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Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie |
It's not anything complicated. The idea is simply that only you, the owner of the firearm, as direct access to the gun when it is locked in its case. That's it. The luggage the locked pistol case is in can have a TSA lock or no lock. Up to you. I once checked my pistol in its locked 1075 Pelican case in just a small 30L stowaway Eddie Bauer backpack. The backpack i just zip tied.
In my locked case with my pistol are two spare magazines fully loaded. It's not an issue. Furthermore, I have an empty magazine in the gun. Again, it's not an issue. Also in the locked case are two full boxes of spare ammo. ~Alan Acta Non Verba NRA Life Member (Patron) God, Family, Guns, Country Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan | |||
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Member |
As a few people have said, packing ammo in the locking gun case is fine. Here is a reference direct from the TSA: https://www.tsa.gov/travel/tra...earms-and-ammunition “ Small arms ammunition (up to .75 caliber and shotgun shells of any gauge) must be packaged in a fiber (such as cardboard), wood, plastic, or metal box specifically designed to carry ammunition and declared to your airline. Ammunition may be transported in the same hard-sided, locked case as a firearm if it has been packed as described above. You cannot use firearm magazines or clips for packing ammunition unless they completely enclose the ammunition. Firearm magazines and ammunition clips, whether loaded or empty, must be boxed or included within a hard-sided, locked case. “ | |||
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Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie |
Well, I've been getting away with doing this. Oops. Probably because they are deep in the foam, and the agent simply never bothers to pull them out to check. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ~Alan Acta Non Verba NRA Life Member (Patron) God, Family, Guns, Country Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan | |||
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Member |
Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but are you not able to Legally mail your firearm to yourself ??? So could you not just package your firearm securely and mail it addressed to yourself to your destination like the hotel or family member's home ??? To even be more secure, you can mail it in 2 separate packages, one containing the upper slide and barrel and the other the lower grip and magazine, etc. ??? God Bless !!! "Always legally conceal carry. At the right place and time, one person can make a positive difference." | |||
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אַרְיֵה |
This sounds like it might be an easy way to do it, providing that you do not need to be armed as you are leaving the airport at your destination. I do have a question: is there a reference to the rules / regulations that specify the procedure for doing this? הרחפת שלי מלאה בצלופחים | |||
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Dances With Tornados |
I have no idea how to answer your question, but just for curiosities sake, I went to CalGuns.net Link to see if I could find any helpful answer there. CalGuns is probably, from what I'm told by family in California, the best site for California gun owners and information of such in California. Spending a little time poking around on CalGuns left me with the beginning of a headache and even more sympathy for California residents and visitors regarding firearms and self defense, etc. California is fornicated. Kevin best wishes to you on your flight and visit. What I read leads me to believe is that even the tiniest little mistake will land you in cuffs and off to jail and their awful judicial system, even if you are LEO. . | |||
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אַרְיֵה |
That's exactly why I asked about an official reference to the proper procedure for mailing a firearm to yourself. הרחפת שלי מלאה בצלופחים | |||
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Gone but Together Again. Dad & Uncle |
Plenty of good advice so far. What I will add is I’ve flown many times with a firearm and two times now TSA required me to open the gun case to visually inspect the firearm. Allow an extra half hour when you check in because they will have you wait to the side just in case TSA does want to visually inspect your firearm. The old rule was only you were to have the key to open the locked gun case inside your regular suitcase. That is no longer The case as I used to travel with a fingerprint safe so they would have to bring the luggage back upstairs to me to open the gun case. I would not use a non-TSA lock to avoid that delay. I like the idea of placing an apple tag in the gun case. Also be sure to have a printed copy of both the TSA rules AND the particular rule for the airline you plan on using. They can save you a great deal of aggravation should the check in agent or TSA give you any grief. | |||
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Member |
Yes. The locked pistol case goes in the suitcase. Some guys then use a cable lock attached to the pistol case to lock the already-locked case to the internal frame of the suitcase. As to TSA locks versus non-TSA locks after having 2 TSA locks cut off I don't bother with either. I frequently travel with soft luggage/backpack, so locking it is sort of moot, as a thief will just slice it open. I like the idea of zip ties, but because my knives and Leatherman are in the bag you are at the mercy of finding someone in the airport with a knife or cutter to cut them for you, which is harder than it sounds. Badging an airport cop will usually work, if you can find one. People often make a bigger deal out of flying with firearms than I have found it to be. I do carry a copy of the airline policy and procedure just in case I needed to educate a counter agent and have never needed it. If you ID yourself as a cop it's likely to cause confusion with some counter agents as they assume that you are flying while armed. I make a point of NOT identifying myself, unless and until some TSA Xray machine operator sees my 5-point Deputy Sheriff's Star and assumes it's a shuriken - it's happened. | |||
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Member |
From the same TSA page I linked above: “ Firearms must be unloaded and locked in a hard-sided container and transported as checked baggage only. As defined by 49 CFR 1540.5 a loaded firearm has a live round of ammunition, or any component thereof, in the chamber or cylinder or in a magazine inserted in the firearm. Only the passenger should retain the key or combination to the lock unless TSA personnel request the key to open the firearm container to ensure compliance with TSA regulations. You may use any brand or type of lock to secure your firearm case, including TSA-recognized locks.” You’re still supposed to lock the case with a lock only you can open, except that you can use a TSA lock if you want. Just be aware that if you use a TSA lock, you’re covered from a legal standpoint, but as far as someone getting into your stuff you might as well not lock it at all. TSA locks are generally so small and shitty that they can be popped open with a couple screwdrivers or cut with a pocket-sized cutter. Beyond that, there are a very small number of TSA keys that open all TSA locks and the details of the keys are out there on the internet for anyone who wants to make a set. | |||
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Member |
. Hi Kevin, Everything I could say about traveling with a firearm has been covered, but if you have questions about the SoCal area please email me and I will be happy to offer suggestions. Enjoy your trip!!! . | |||
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Gone but Together Again. Dad & Uncle |
This is the section that was added to which I referenced: “…unless TSA personnel request the key to open the firearm container to ensure compliance with TSA regulations…” | |||
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Ammoholic |
Read, print, and take with you: https://www.tsa.gov/travel/tra...earms-and-ammunition Do the same with the similar page for whatever airline you end up using. It is not at all uncommon for the folks on the other side of the counter to not know their own rules (though I've seen this a whole lot more with the airlines than the TSA, and one might not get far arguing with TSA anyway even if their own rules showed them wrong. What's that old saying about only a fool argues with a cop by the side of the road?) Many suitcases have an internal zipper that when opened gives access to the frame/structure/ struts for the handle on wheeler bags. What I do is undo the zipper, pass the cable around a frame member, feed the other end through it, then lock that other end either to one or both the padlocks on a pelican box or inside the nanovault if I use that. Whatever you use to lock the lockboxes (and lock them to the suitcase), you keep the keys or the combination and do not use a TSA lock so they cannot open it. They'll run it through a scanner and they may call for you to open it for them if they can't see well enough, but if you open it, you'll lock it back up when they're done and then it will go to the airlines to handle. When checking the bag at the counter, I tell the counter person that I have an unloaded firearm to declare. They'll give me the form to sign (and maybe fill out, its been a while) that indicates that the firearm is unloaded/clear and once the form is ready to go, the best gate agents tape it to the outside of the lockbox, then close the suitcase back up. That's usually when they run it over to TSA (depends on the airport) and they'll often say to standby for 15 minutes or so so that if TSA needs you to open the case you are available. Sometimes (I'm looking at you American Airlines) they have a policy where checked bags that have a firearm inside have to go straight to the lost luggage office instead of coming out on the carousel. They may put a big heavy zip tie on the suitcase so you can't open it quickly. The odds are around 50-50 as to whether they will tell that it is going to lost luggage and about 50-50 as to whether it will actually go to lost luggage, at least in our experience. We just divide and conquer. One goes to the carousel, one goes to lost luggage. It has always showed up in one spot or another. Gate agents are always interesting too. The last several times, they have just said Okay, and filled out the form. It was kind of interesting when the nice lady at Manchester, NH asked me to demonstrate that they were clear and then commented on how she particularly liked one of them. My experience has been that sometimes it involves a little bit of a runaround, but if one allows a little extra time (not that you'll necessarily need it, but so you don't feel pressured for time) and just rolls with it, things go much easier. It is good to have the printed rules though so if you do run into that one gate agent who thinks you can't have ammunition in a factory box, (or in a magazine), or that the factory box needs to be completely full, or whatever, you can show them in their own companies rules printed from their own company's webpage, that what you are doing is legit. Oh, speaking of factory boxes of ammunition in suitcases. If you do have boxes of ammo loose in the suitcase, you may want to consider putting them in a gallon ziplock bag. That way if the baggage handlers go all Ace Ventura, Pet Detective on your suitcase and bust open the box, you aren't digging all through your clothes to find the loose rounds. Congratulations on being covered by LEOSA! I think that is the only way for non-residents of CA to legally exercise their natural rights in this communist paradise. Have a Great trip! | |||
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Ammoholic |
CA is not at all consistent. CCW permits are issued by the Sheriff (if you live in the county or your city punts issuing to the Sheriff) or the Chief of Police where you live. Some counties are "Not unless you are sleeping with the mayor and maybe not even then" and some counties are effectively shall issue. Most fall somewhere in between. LEOs have a wide range of attitudes too. I'm sure that there are some with an attitude like you describe, most likely in LA and SF, but all that I have encountered are much more relaxed and I'd bet that the overwhelming majority would cut a fellow officer trying to do the right thing some slack. CalGuns does have a lot of good information, but sometimes they are a little overly pessimistic, at least for all but the most urban counties. | |||
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Member |
While you can print and take with you a copy of the TSA regulation, bear in mind that the airline is not obligated to carry your firearm, and can impose any additional requirements that the airline, or the captain, deems appropriate. The captain has full discretion to refuse to carry the firearm, for example. Know the airline policy, know the regulatory policy, but know that you are not entitled to send the firearm by air. That is to say, while the regulation states specifics regarding basic practices, the airline may have other policies which can be more restrictive, but not more liberal. If you elect not to use a lock that can be opened, and you leave your bag at an inspection area and move on, it's possible that your bag, requiring an additional inspection, might not make your flight, and might get held back if you can't be found to open that case. All items in the secure area are subject to search and examination at any time; you agree to this as a condition of taking the flight and submitting baggage for carriage. That your bag was inspected once doesn't mean it can't be inspected again. If you've used a lock that can't be opened by the inspector, because you have the key and it's not a common-keyed lock, your bag may be denied carriage. Will it be denied carriage? No, of course not; most unlikely. The point, however, is that you are not entitled to carriage: that decision rests with the carrier, and ultimately, with the pilot in command of that flight. You can print any number of papers and wave them in the ticket agent's face to show that you know the regulation better than they, that you know the policy better than they. See, I have this paper. You have to do it. No, they don't. You have a paper. The company has the option. | |||
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Member |
With your experience, could you borrow a lead dispenser in CA to minimize your stress? Your ability and muscle memory should make it possible to offer safety for your friends even without your personal firearm. ------- Trying to simplify my life... | |||
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Member |
Consider this: guys that are on the professional firearms training circuit are, by and large, doing this weekly and often with multiple guns, body armor, suppressors, ammunition, etc. The guys that run Glock armorer classes are doing it with a big Pelican with 25 pistols in it. It's less intimidating once you've done it a couple times. Last April, I flew to Syracuse on two days' notice to pick up a car and drive 12 hours home. I threw a change of clothes in a backpack and checked only a Pelican case. No big deal. My experience flying IN to California (SFO) was like any other airport. Flying OUT, it seemed like there were more hoops. We ended up routed to some basement office for TSA to "inspect" my guns. I've never run into that before or since, and it took a long time to get from that office to our gate, so be aware of that potentiality. | |||
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