I understand they are attractive to many but I've never really been a fan of hybrid cars. I still prefer ICE only cars. Call me a dino.

That being said, I took a look at the Toyota website and all Camry's are hybrid now. I hope ICE only offerings will be available under Trump but I'm not holding my breath.

Question about hybrids like the Camry. At what point will the battery be depleted leaving the car running only on the ICE engine? Never? Or after some number of miles? For example, let's say I take a cross country driving trip and driving a bit fast (keeping up with the flow). Will the battery engine last the duration of the trip? Or will it deplete at some point?

I guess I'm wondering under what conditions and associated duration (or miles) will the battery get depleted. Or will it always be available under reasonable use? And will an AWD model affect this or not?

What's the TCO of a hybrid vs ICE over 20 years? Same? Less? Substantially more? Substantially less? Or should I be planning to get rid of it by 10 years?

Nothing to be terribly concerned about.
Toyota has a 10 year/150k mile warranty on the batteries.

Toyotas Hybrid are very very reliable just make sure to keep the battery vent filters clean.

If a battery goes they aren’t crazy expensive and very simple to swap yourself with simple hand tools.
As with anything a dealer swap of a battery is outrageously expensive.

Thanks - that instills some confidence.

The Car Care Nut replaces hybrid battery:
https://youtu.be/T3VFeMWINCc
Hope it helps.

They recharge as you drive. You don't have to plug them in. You never really 0% the battery in them. And they get like 50MPG outstanding

Even the "Prime" models never officially have to be plugged in.

battery wtty is ten yrs or 100,000 miles.
I've owned Hyundai Tucson 2024 hybrid for 7 months and love it.
gas mileage, city is 32 mpg, road mpg is slightly less.

Thanks guys. Good info. Lots to learn about hybrids I guess. Evidently won't be able to beat them at this point, so inevitably will join them.

quote:

Originally posted by sonnydaze:
battery wtty is ten yrs or 100,000 miles.
I've owned Hyundai Tucson 2024 hybrid for 7 months and love it.
gas mileage, city is 32 mpg, road mpg is slightly less.

quote:

Hybrid Battery Warranty
Every Toyota Hybrid battery is supported by a 10-year/150,000-mile limited warranty coverage, whichever comes first.

https://www.toyota.com/electrified-vehicles/warranty/

We're on our 6th Toyota hybrid in the family now. Two Priuses, and four RAV4s. First one was a model year 2009 so we've 15 years' experience. Prius are gone, traded in on two of the RAV4s.

None of our 6 are/were plug-in hybrids, so for all I know those may be different, but ours have managed their batteries automatically and, when the battery needs charging (or you want greater acceleration then the electrical drive can deliver) they'll turn the gas engine on and you don't need to know or care.

If you decide you want to, you could dive into details and settings and make the car lean more toward battery usage or toward the internal combustion engine, but you don't have to, and I never have.

TL : DR - From a 10,000-ft. view, you put gasoline in them just like regular cars and they give great mileage...and that's it. From an operational perspective you don't need to manage batteries when driving any more than you need to manage a carburetor.

In my opinion, Toyota is the segment leader when it comes to hybrid vehicles. They have so much more experience and feedback than the other manufacturers.

I watched a guy on YouTube replace the batteries on a Prius and it was surprisingly easy.

My son bought a 2024 Toyota RAV4 hybrid here in Jax after transferring back from Japan. He drove his family from here to Seattle, WA in 5 days towing a small u-haul. He said it handled it great.
You can’t plug the Rav 4 in to charge it. It only charges off of the ICE so you pretty much just gas it up and go. The battery system just gives you better mileage.

quote:

Originally posted by Lineman101:
The Car Care Nut replaces hybrid battery:
https://youtu.be/T3VFeMWINCc
Hope it helps.

From his excellent video, the cost of the replacement battery and necessary ancillary parts was $5800 on a Toyota Camry that had 140,000 miles on the odometer. Looking up mpg info. on non-hybrid and hybrid Camry and calculating the savings differential in gasoline cost, the owners would have saved over $2000 if they had purchased the non-hybrid vehicle.

Here are the numbers I used for a 2010 Toyota Camry driven 10k miles/yr.

non-hybrid
10,000 miles per year / 26mpg (combined) = 385 gallons/yr

hybrid
10,000 miles per year / 34mpg (combined) = 294 gallons/yr

385 - 294 = 91 gallons per year

91 gallons per year * 14 years = 1,274 gallons saved by having hybrid

1,274 gallons * $2.50 per gallon (estimated average) = $3,185 cost of gasoline saved by having hybrid

$3,185 (cost savings) - $5,800 (battery replacement cost) = ($2,615) loss overall to keep hybrid running

Here's where I got the mpg numbers:
non-hybrid: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/fe...0_toyota_camry.shtml
hybrid: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/fe...?action=sbs&id=26424

Additionally, it's my understanding from the reading I've done on hybrids that the car cannot be driven at all, even on the engine alone, if the hybrid battery pack goes bad.

With these numbers and information, what am I missing as regards hybrids being a better choice either financially (initial cost, cost to repair, etc.) or ecologically (additional 2366 miles on gasoline for non-hybrid vs. various processes to create & dispose of hybrid battery pack)?

Note: If you own a hybrid I'm not attacking your choice. I am merely stating the facts as I've gleaned them and am honestly curious as to why choose a hybrid over non-hybrid if there isn't any cost savings in the long-run.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: marksman41,

quote:

Originally posted by marksman41:

quote:

Originally posted by Lineman101:
The Car Care Nut replaces hybrid battery:
https://youtu.be/T3VFeMWINCc
Hope it helps.

From his excellent video, the cost of the replacement battery and necessary ancillary parts was $5800 on a Toyota Camry that had 140,000 miles on the odometer. Looking up mpg info. on non-hybrid and hybrid Camry and calculating the savings differential in gasoline cost, the owners would have saved over $2000 if they had purchased the non-hybrid vehicle.

Here are the numbers I used for a 2010 Toyota Camry driven 10k miles/yr.

non-hybrid
10,000 miles per year / 26mpg (combined) = 385 gallons/yr

hybrid
10,000 miles per year / 34mpg (combined) = 294 gallons/yr

385 - 294 = 91 gallons per year

91 gallons per year * 14 years = 1,274 gallons saved by having hybrid

1,274 gallons * $2.50 per gallon (estimated average) = $3,185 cost of gasoline saved by having hybrid

$3,185 (cost savings) - $5,800 (battery replacement cost) = ($2,615) loss overall to keep hybrid running

Here's where I got the mpg numbers:
non-hybrid: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/fe...0_toyota_camry.shtml
hybrid: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/fe...?action=sbs&id=26424

Additionally, it's my understanding from the reading I've done on hybrids that the car cannot be driven at all, even on the engine alone, if the hybrid battery pack goes bad.

With these numbers and information, what am I missing as regards hybrids being a better choice either financially (initial cost, cost to repair, etc.) or ecologically (additional 2366 miles on gasoline for non-hybrid vs. various processes to create & dispose of hybrid battery pack)?

Note: If you own a hybrid I'm not attacking your choice. I am merely stating the facts as I've gleaned them and am honestly curious as to why choose a hybrid over non-hybrid if there isn't any cost savings in the long-run.

Those numbers aren't exactly accurate. My wife's been driving a Rav4 hybrid since 2019 and routinely gets over 45 MPG, 50+ if she tries, in the nicer weather. Most people don't keep a vehicle long enough to worry about battery replacement, and when we bought her Rav it was only $800 more than the ICE engine model. I actually wanted the hybrid, not because it's a hybrid, but because the transmission sucked in the ICE engine Rav.

I love my V8 Tundra but I've been looking hard at adding a Camry to the driveway. Around 50MPG and MSRP went down with they went all in Hybrid.

If the numbers I'm using aren't accurate, what are the accurate numbers for that year/model of vehicle and what is the source?

I went and looked at the mpg for the 2024 Toyota Camry and using the information from the same source, as well as Toyota's published mpg - 28mpg (combined) for non-hybrid and 52mpg (combined) for hybrid - over the same 140,000 miles and 14 year period I calculated a cost savings of $5,775. Using the current battery replacement cost of $5,800, an owner would have a total cost savings of just $5.

As far as keeping a vehicle long-term, both my vehicles are over twenty years old and, for a number of reasons, it's my intention to keep and maintain them for as long a parts are available.

What resource would you use to determine the average length of ownership of a hybrid? When a hybrid owner moves on to a newer model are the old ones junked or do other people buy them? If people are buying used hybrids is it safe to assume that at some point the battery pack will need replacing?

I don't think I'd base decisions on assuming $2.50 gas for the next 14 years. Here's a link to US DoE retail gas price history data since 1993 if you want to look at the history.

Buyers of used hybrids (and EVs) surely need to have the battery inspected as part of the buying decision. A worn out battery is just as much of a potential problem as bad brakes, transmissions, etc.

I'm using the average price for my area. California, New York, etc. and other places that have ridiculous prices for gasoline don't affect what I pay. The chart also is an average of all grades of gasoline instead of just the most widely used grade of 87 octane. Adding in the cost of the much more expensive premium grade unrealistically skews the data.

quote:

Originally posted by marksman41:
If the numbers I'm using aren't accurate, what are the accurate numbers for that year/model of vehicle and what is the source?

I went and looked at the mpg for the 2024 Toyota Camry and using the information from the same source, as well as Toyota's published mpg - 28mpg (combined) for non-hybrid and 52mpg (combined) for hybrid - over the same 140,000 miles and 14 year period I calculated a cost savings of $5,775. Using the current battery replacement cost of $5,800, an owner would have a total cost savings of just $5.

As far as keeping a vehicle long-term, both my vehicles are over twenty years old and, for a number of reasons, it's my intention to keep and maintain them for as long a parts are available.

What resource would you use to determine the average length of ownership of a hybrid? When a hybrid owner moves on to a newer model are the old ones junked or do other people buy them? If people are buying used hybrids is it safe to assume that at some point the battery pack will need replacing?

Hybrid vehicles aren't for everyone. We've had a total of one in my house and it's been good to us so I wouldn't hesitate to buy another Toyota hybrid.
The numbers are geared to making hybrids a bad choice and while they may be a bad choice for some, the numbers are a little slanted.
I haven't seen 2.50 a gallon gas since Trump left office. Most people drive more than 10k miles a year and most people don't keep a car more than a few years. Replacement batteries can also be had a lot cheaper than shown.
Again, not pushing hybrids and I understand some people don't drive much and keep their vehicles for a long time. In all fairness though, I think the numbers are a little slanted.

As I said, I'm using an average cost over the time period for the Camry in the video (2010-2014) for the grade of fuel (87) I use in my area based on my observations. Not scientific at all, but as good a baseline as I'm going to get for my purposes of car driving and ownership habits.

Certainly the higher the cost of fuel, the less offset there is to the cost of replacing the battery pack. Also, replacing a vehicle every few years will entirely negate any battery replacement cost. According to this site: https://www.thezebra.com/resou...th-of-car-ownership/ it appears that the average length of car ownership is around eight years so a hybrid owner is safe with a 10-year/150k mile warranty as from this site: https://www.consumeraffairs.co...on-drive-a-year.html the average miles driven by car owners is 14k/year. So, yes, hybrids can make sense for people that are in the average. For the owners of the Camry in the video, and others like them, it does not.

A few years back I had looked into getting a hybrid. I looked at them all but then, as now, it didn't make sense for me when including cost of fuel in my area, my miles driven per year, and my length of car ownership. The cost of buying new was off-putting so I looked at getting a used hybrid SUV and factored in the cost of replacing the battery as I knew I would have to do so at some point in the future. I did see where there are less expensive options than the one in The Car Nut video but, going back to baselines, he's using OEM with the warranty, guarantee, quality, etc., that come with that product vs. an lower-cost aftermarket item that may or may not meet the same standards, so using OEM should be the standard baseline when it comes to battery pack replacement cost.

Even with all that I still was wanting to get a hybrid SUV (figuring to save some $$$ by going with an aftermarket battery and doing the install myself), until I learned that when the battery pack doesn't work then the vehicle won't operate at all, even on just the engine. That was the main factor that changed my mind. I had been under the impression that with a hybrid if you had engine trouble you could use the battery to get to help (depending on the distance involved, of course), or if the battery pack wasn't working that you could just drive the vehicle using just the engine until you could fix whatever the problem was with the battery. Unfortunately neither action is possible.

Having one possibility of a power source (engine) developing a fault is acceptable to me. Adding an additional power source fault possibility (battery pack) without any compensatory means to remain mobile on just one of the two isn't.

I get it, nobody else cares about such things. And hybrids do make sense for many. The video is an example where it doesn't and there are a number of factors to consider if a hybrid makes sense for someone.

Edit to add:
It didn't dawn on me until a moment ago that I didn't take into account the locale of the owners of the hybrid in the video. I think The Car Care Nut is in the Chicagoland area, which means that the owner of the car is most likely there as well. That means that with their historical gas prices the owners probably came out ahead or, at the least, broke even. So, while owning a hybrid unfortunately still doesn't make sense for me, the video is not the example of it not being financially viable for someone else as I first thought it to be.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: marksman41,

The new Ram 1500 hybrid is the future. Same drive systems locomotives and ships have been on for close to 50 years (generators hooked to electric motors.)

Simpler, more efficient, and should be cheaper, eventually.

I am curious as to what about the driver that drives very little like a lot of retirees. Would such be bad for a hybrid system battery and what about days being idle in extreme sub zero cold? Could there be an issue with the hybrid car not starting if voltage on hybrid battery is too low or would it be fine if the gas engine starts?

It's getting harder to find a car with a standard engine as most are going to hybrid or small engine with a turbo. A lot of the turbo vehicles aren't showing the engine longevity it seems compared to robust standard engines and a lot require premium gas that is about a buck a gallon more than regular around here.