quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

As an outsider (now) looking in, that’s exactly what should be expected to have happened as a result of a primary aspect of Christianity as it’s practiced today.

The various bibles in existence and use are not any sort of effective unifying force, and not only because of their obvious differences. In the days when I occasionally participated in discussions about religion I quickly lost track of the number of times I was told that something I quoted directly didn’t mean what it said. Because almost any bit of doctrine or even statement of supposed fact that can be pointed to in scripture has been confidently interpreted in significantly different ways, the result is that there is a tendency for people to just shop around until they find an interpretation they like. That’s something I even see referenced here when people move from one church to another. And if you can’t find someone who interprets and preaches the way you like, well then, just form your own sect—as has happened countless times and led to countless different denominations.

As someone being comfortable with any number of bible versions, I would submit to you that the various bibles in existence is not a factor in the many different Christian denominations.

My evidence for my assertion is you can download any one of several free bible apps and just about every version is available on each single app. The many denominations preceded most of the modern translations.

As far as Christian denominations go, an overarching theme is that they agree on the essentials and allow liberty in the non-essentials. You can collectively group the main christian denominations on their agreement on what the essentials are and identify the outliers where they differ on the essentials or making a nonessential as essentials.

I go to a very small church in the middle of nowhere. We share a Korean pastor with another church about 4 miles away. Since we are small, we tend to get the short end of the stick. There are some of us who would leave if the majority of the Baltimore-Washington Conference gets its way and becomes as liberal as they are. Problem is even though I try to convince people in our congregation to realize that a decision needs to be made soon, there they sit, twiddling their thumbs.

When in doubt about splitting off, the best consultation can be had with the Baptist churches. They kind of wrote the book on how to split up a church without really trying.

A friend of mine helped split his Baptist church over a major disagreement amongst the leaders of his church - ie at what temperature should the thermostat be set! He and his adversary would compete to see who could adjust the thermostat the most number of times during the services.

When I had the nerve to ask him "what would Jesus do?", he classified me as a heathen smart-ass. (he probably got that part right!)

The Catholic Church sold off property and churches built by parishioners to pay its legal bills. Some Churches the land was donated and the immigrants from Europe built the churches or cathedral. Archdiocese sold them to pay for pedophile priests wrong doings. Split a lot of parishes and congregations along liberal and conservative values in the church.

My wife's UMC is starting down this path. The pastor is very conservative, and at little under 40 years old he has the energy to make the split happen.

His position is that we're all sinners, and sinners belong in church, but homosexuals cannot be married. They can live however they want, and they can have a civil ceremony of some kind, but it's not happening in his church on his watch.

As far as bickering about who owns the property, I know of several places that used to be churches in my area but are no longer. One of them sold to the public for about $5k. That's right, the cost of a used car. Another sold for about $125k, because the parsonage went with it. IE, finding a property to use for your church isn't an issue in my area.

quote:

Originally posted by whanson_wi:
My wife's UMC is starting down this path. The pastor is very conservative, and at little under 40 years old he has the energy to make the split happen.

His position is that we're all sinners, and sinners belong in church, but homosexuals cannot be married. They can live however they want, and they can have a civil ceremony of some kind, but it's not happening in his church on his watch.

As far as bickering about who owns the property, I know of several places that used to be churches in my area but are no longer. One of them sold to the public for about $5k. That's right, the cost of a used car. Another sold for about $125k, because the parsonage went with it. IE, finding a property to use for your church isn't an issue in my area.

That's all well and good but mt bethel umc's facilities are worth $35 million.

As far as homosexuals, many mainline denominations are already in full acceptance of the lifestyle and have gay clergy and perform same sex marriages. Episcopal, especially, but the Presbyterian church, Lutheran, etc. Google the issue and you'll see dozens of pictures of churches with rainbow flags flying on their flagpoles or in their windows.

I'm a UMC PK. United Methodist Church Preacher's Kid. I remember when the UMC came into existence in 1968. I was a typical PK, but I specialized in not getting caught .

Thank goodness my dad retired in 2004. He would have a fit if one of his churches wanted to allow gay clergy and marriage. He is very conservative, as am I and my kids too. He is still connected as a retired pastor, but really not in the administrative side of things within our district or conference.

Alabama consists of 2 conferences, the North Alabama Conference (NAUMC) and the Alabama-West Florida Conference (AWFUMC), both of which are in the Southeast Jurisdictional Conference of the UMC General Assembly for the USA. This Southeast Jurisdictional Conference and IIRC, the Midwest Jurisdictional Conference, were the only 2 Conferences in the USA to vote against gay clergy and marriage. All the others did. Ironically, it was the (former missionary territories) overseas Conferences that tilted the vote for scripture / conservatism at the last big UMC gathering. That is where the start of the split into the UMC (heretics) and Global Methodist Church (conservatives) began. Ironic that the heretics / troublemakers get to keep the name.

The largest church in the AWFUMC, Frazer Memorial in Montgomery, AL, voted to disaffiliate back in January and officially left the UMC at Annual Conference in June of this year, to join the Free Methodist Church (FMC). Frazer probably had to pay a hefty sum, but they have deep pockets and have their own TV and radio stations. 3 other churches officially left as well, and 7 others gave notice that they will by next year's Annual Conference.

My little UMC is very conservative, and we are in the process of voting to disaffiliate, as is the closest UMC to us. They had a meeting last week, and the District Superintendent told them that it would cost them $85K to leave. But they have an Elder assigned as a pastor, whereas we have a Part-time Supply Pastor.
We are prepared to pay something, but right now we are unsure of aligning with the GMC, FMC, or just going totally independent.

My oldest son's UMC in Shelby County voted to disaffiliate from the NAUMC, and we went to the last service their pastor had, because our grandson was being dedicated then. Their pastor preached out of the Book of Timothy, stating how churches gave into the willfullness of Man, speaking about what Man wanted to hear, and not what God had to say. It was a good sermon; hopefully someone recorded it.

Regardless, we know how the story ends - God will prevail.

^^^^^^ overseas Christians (not Europeans) tend to be much more conservative thN US Christians, in general.