quote:

Originally posted by sjtill:
I’ve seen videos of an air tanker in nor Cal and so Cal that is a high wing, high-tail 4-engine jet with swept wings and a thick fuselage, similar to a C-141 or C-17 but I doubt it’s either. Can anyone tell me what this aircraft is? Not listed on Wikipedia’s page of aircraft for fire suppression.

My first guess would be a BAE-146:

RJ-85 with external tank above, BAE-146 with internal tank below.

Is that OV-10 using smoke to signal the 747 pilot around 2:30 in Ramius’ video?

The leadplane will use smoke to mark the start point and end point of a drop. Often the lead will do a dry run on the fire while the tanker orbits or follows through above, and the lead will mark the drop with smoke, along with a detailed running commentary on the drop, terrain features, exit strategy, etc. During the lead-in, the drop will also often be marked with smoke.

It has the added benefit of allowing others on the ground and in the air to note the intended drop point.

California is the only place that has the OV-10's. Federal leads are King Air's most often, and a few Citations which were supposed to be phased out.

The leads have largely transitioned to the BLM model now, which is called an ASM: air supervision module. It contains a qualified leadplane pilot and the air attack function in one cockpit. The air attack, or ATGS (air tactical group supervisor) is an experienced firefighter (typically 20+ years on the ground and substantial command experience), who performs a coordinates communications across the fire, runs the airshow, performs limited ATC functions within the temporary flight restriction (TFR), and other duties. He's a busy guy.

The BLM put the ATGS and Lead in the same aircraft and found it to be a success; many others are doing that now too. Its not uncommon to have an ATGS/Air Attack overhead as well; they can save lives and their absence has lead to loss of life in the past.

Sorry, rambling. Smoke is a marker. Also helps note wind drift.

 
The two heavies at the Yarnell Hill fire were DC-10s.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

The leads have largely transitioned to the BLM model now, which is called an ASM: air supervision module. It contains a qualified leadplane pilot and the air attack function in one cockpit. The air attack, or ATGS (air tactical group supervisor) is an experienced firefighter (typically 20+ years on the ground and substantial command experience), who performs a coordinates communications across the fire, runs the airshow, performs limited ATC functions within the temporary flight restriction (TFR), and other duties. He's a busy guy.

Sounds like a military FAC(A) / TAC(A).

Put all the important people in one spot, with all the tools they need, and let them make it all happen without a bunch of ninnies budding their heads in!

quote:

Originally posted by henryaz:
 
The two heavies at the Yarnell Hill fire were DC-10s.

The VLAT's (DC-10's) were on scene, operating out of Williams Gateway. Numerous other heavy tankers were on scene, including the P2V and BAE-146, flying out of both Prescott and Gateway. Thunderstorm activity caused tankers to shift between bases repeatedly during the fire, and ultimately one of the storms produced a microburst which caused the burn-over.

Locals were upset because they had erroneously been told (rumor mill) that tankers were available, and not being used. That was not true.

The DC-10's were only a part of the picture.

C-130 MAFFS Firefighting Training April 2018 McClellan Field, Ca.

Juan Browne's video on air tankers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...aYljip0T1BKC0-FB3K90

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
Thunderstorm activity caused tankers to shift between bases repeatedly during the fire, and ultimately one of the storms produced a microburst which caused the burn-over.

From our POV, the fire was on the other side of the hill, but near the top, and all we saw were thick clouds of smoke. Then on that fateful Sunday, we were watching from the kitchen window, and suddenly the top ridge of the mountain was all flames. That's how the microburst's effect appeared from 13 miles away. It was very sudden, literally a flash fire.

When I arrived on that fire, it couldn't be seen. It was a lightning strike on the back side of a ridge from Yarnell, and it was just above that point that the Granites spent their entire time on the fire, and from which all the photos of them on the fire were taken. When I got there, the fire was so sparse that it took some time to actually spot it; a few weeds in the rocks smoldering, and we boxed it with retardant on four sides. We did two loads, and then got parked for the afternoon. Around five or so it blew jumped the ridge, and got into heavy fuels on the yarnell side. The next day we began building line from the ridge where the Granites were, down into the valley, hooking around toward Peeple's Valley.

On an inbound to the fire before the blow-up, I queried the lead about the thunderstorm moving in from the north, and noted we'd get a significant windshift with high probability of a microburst. I was told "we see it," and not to worry about it.

When the fire reversed course, from the Wickenburg side of the cliffs, it looked to me like a giant dry-ice mist flow, that poured off ridge and into the valley, dropping conditions to low instrument (IFR) visibility in minutes. Some of our aircraft were caught aloft, and it overtook them. That's how fast it moved.

The Granites were ordered down into Yarnell to do structure protection. The official story is that no one knows why they went down there, off the ridge, and off their safe zone. That is not the truth. They were ordered down to do structure protection, complete disregard for their experience, certification, the weather, fuels, terrain, or mission, and they died enroute to a ranch house. From overhead, it's clearly visible.

The last communication heard from the team was a call for help, to which the reply from the lead was to stay off the radio. No one heard from them again. All hell broke loose, calls went out for every available medevac and helicopter, and there was a call for hail-mary passes with the VLAT. We shut down and were grounded due to visibility, as were most, and shortly thereafter we got word. I got it from one of the firefighters on base, and ran into the State director who was walking the opposite direction. I asked if he'd heard, and he looked sick. He asked how many. I said "all of them." His knees gave out. I understood how he felt. We all felt pretty damn helpless.