quote:

Originally posted by architect:
OK, so I'm not afraid to show my ignorance here...

• How does one know that one's engine is a DI?
  
• Can you tell by looking (without removing manifolds, etc.)?
  
• Does "fuel injection" imply DI, or are there other ways to get fuel into cylinders

Yeah, I get that fuel injected engines don't have carbs, but what makes a DI engine a DI engine? Are there code words in a manufacturer's engine description that will reveal this information?

Fuel injection is not DI by definition.

There are a lot of ways to fuel inject. Originally one injector, then multiple injectors into the intake air system. Throttle body fuel injection was early, then multiport injection, all into the airstream outside the cylinders. Better economy and power can be had by direct injecting into each cylinder. There are a number of schemes for injecting and igniting within the cylinders.

Nowadays there are some hybrid schemes with port injection to help clean valves plus direct injection into the cylinder for efficiency and power.

Which, as an aside, is why very new designs really do require the octane specified. In the old days if you drove gently and/or avoided low rpms you could use a bit lower octane safely.

Google your make model and year vehicle to find out what the engine designation is. e.g. my Subaru was an FB20D engine. Then you can find all kinds of details on the web about it.

The age old Italian Tune Up. Do that regularly. Then just plan for walnut blasting every 25,000 miles.

Direct injection is often called GDI, and sometimes DIG. Port fuel injection is abbreviated PFI.

If you can look under hood, and often under a decorative plastic shield over the intake, you will easily see PFI injectors, and fuel rails.

If you suspect GDI, your engine will have
(a)a high pressure fuel pump, most often on the cylinder head, at one end, driven by a camshaft extension
(b)fuel injectors located below the manifold, very challenging to see. Most often they are somewhat horizontal,and must also be at the very top of the head where they can inject a fuel mist at the side or top of the combustion chamber.

I had a catch can installed in my '18 bmw 430, didn't catch much, never bothered to clean the valves even though i was running a tune, just changed my spark plugs every 15k miles.

I'm in a '19 bmw x2 m35i now and at 45k, I didn't bother. It seems BMW may have solved this issue with these newer engines, no one's talked about having to walnut blast anything with the newer Bxx engines.

My daughter's 2020 Subaru Impreza is another issue. At the 36k oil change, we used the CRC GDI intake cleaner before we changed the oil. Car seems to run better afterwards, but that could just be in our heads. I didn't have a bore scope to check. Local place by us was clearing out the Lucas version of the GDI deep clean for $4 a can so I bought 3 of them. We'll try it at her 50k oil change.

It's not that hard to do, it just takes some time.

Is the Ridgeline known for that issue? Just wondering why that would be a concern. I know some vehicles are prone to it. I do use top tier gas exclusivity but that’s one issue I don’t worry about in my Tacoma and 4Runner. Actually it’s never been an issue in any vehicle I’ve owned. My 2007 v6 Accord had a little over 100k when I sold it, my friend added another 60k with no issues. Never noticed the issue on my Subarus either but I traded those before I hit 100k.

I do like BG products and use their 44K occasionally. I use their MOA at every oil change, it’s relatively inexpensive.

quote:

Originally posted by egregore:

quote:

Originally posted by reflex/deflex64:
You’re running the real risk of grenading your turbo running cleaners through the engine.

How? The cleaner goes directly into the intake, which is after the turbo. When it goes out the exhaust through the turbo it has largely been burned. Perhaps I'm missing something,

The cleaners go into a vacuum line which is before the turbo charger. There’s no vacuum after the turbo charger.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

quote:

Originally posted by egregore:

quote:

Originally posted by reflex/deflex64:
You’re running the real risk of grenading your turbo running cleaners through the engine.

How? The cleaner goes directly into the intake, which is after the turbo. When it goes out the exhaust through the turbo it has largely been burned. Perhaps I'm missing something,

The cleaners go into a vacuum line which is before the turbo charger. There’s no vacuum after the turbo charger.

It's not the cleaner that hurts the turbo, it's the results of the cleaning that does. The carbon deposits that leave the combustion chamber go out the exhaust into the turbo. Some pieces of carbon could be big enough to dust it.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

quote:

Originally posted by egregore:

quote:

Originally posted by reflex/deflex64:
You’re running the real risk of grenading your turbo running cleaners through the engine.

How? The cleaner goes directly into the intake, which is after the turbo. When it goes out the exhaust through the turbo it has largely been burned. Perhaps I'm missing something,

The cleaners go into a vacuum line which is before the turbo charger. There’s no vacuum after the turbo charger.

Uhhh, there's two sides to the turbocharger, so it depends. The intake is fed by the charge pipe and 'after' the compressor side of the impeller/inlet side of the turbo. Technically ALL of the vacuum is after the turbo charger! As 'rizzle' indicated, the cleaner going through the turbo charger isn't the problem, but any removed carbon deposits not consumed by combustion could be an issue for the turbo.

The issue of carbon deposits not consumed by combustion is not limited to turbo charged engines, nor is it limited to the turbo either. Those carbon deposits also have the potential to clog the matrix in the Catalytic Converter(s), so it can effect NA (Normally Aspirated) Engines as well. Ultimately these cleaners should be used for preventative maintenance, not to repair/resolve an issue resulting from accumulated carbon deposits. By the time you've got an issue due to IVD, it needs to be removed mechanically, and the best method is abrasive blasting w/ walnut shells. Once you've got clean intake ports/valves, then you can maintain them w/ regular usage of chemical IVD cleaners.

Regardless, I'm pretty sure 'egregore' knows how what he's talking about here.

quote:

Originally posted by architect:

OK, so I'm not afraid to show my ignorance here...

• How does one know that one's engine is a DI?

I asked google and it (google's pronoun: it?) said that the 2.0L EcoBoost engine in my 2020 Ford Escape is GDI.

Now the question is: is google trustworthy?

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

quote:

Originally posted by architect:

OK, so I'm not afraid to show my ignorance here...

• How does one know that one's engine is a DI?

I asked google and it (google's pronoun: it?) said that the 2.0L EcoBoost engine in my 2020 Ford Escape is GDI.

Now the question is: is google trustworthy?

In your case, yes, accurate. I believe all EcoBoost engines are DI, with some being DI with additional port injection for valve cleaning.

I'd assume most newer cars would all be DI by now, outside of maybe some of the most basic cheapest models.

Looks like the Mitsubishi Mirage is still MPFI (multi port fuel injection)
Last I'd read, it was the cheapest new car in the US. Sub 17k for a base model.

quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:
Uhhh, there's two sides to the turbocharger, so it depends. The intake is fed by the charge pipe and 'after' the compressor side of the impeller/inlet side of the turbo. Technically ALL of the vacuum is after the turbo charger! As 'rizzle' indicated, the cleaner going through the turbo charger isn't the problem, but any removed carbon deposits not consumed by combustion could be an issue for the turbo.

The issue of carbon deposits not consumed by combustion is not limited to turbo charged engines, nor is it limited to the turbo either. Those carbon deposits also have the potential to clog the matrix in the Catalytic Converter(s), so it can effect NA (Normally Aspirated) Engines as well. Ultimately these cleaners should be used for preventative maintenance, not to repair/resolve an issue resulting from accumulated carbon deposits. By the time you've got an issue due to IVD, it needs to be removed mechanically, and the best method is abrasive blasting w/ walnut shells. Once you've got clean intake ports/valves, then you can maintain them w/ regular usage of chemical IVD cleaners.

Regardless, I'm pretty sure 'egregore' knows how what he's talking about here.

What’s my boost gauge measuring? What caused the cold side charge pipe to blow off on my Focus ST or the elbow connecting the cold side charge pipe to the throttle body on my F350 to explode?

^^^Apparently, excessive boost...

I’m confused why you said it’s all vacuum after the turbo charger? Unless I’m at idle or coasting, both my Focus ST and F350 show boost which means air is being pushed into the combustion chamber, not sucked in like it would with a naturally aspirated engine.

One wouldn’t spray these cleaners into the intake after the turbo as egregore suggested, would they? Is it even possible?

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

quote:

Originally posted by egregore:

quote:

Originally posted by reflex/deflex64:
You’re running the real risk of grenading your turbo running cleaners through the engine.

How? The cleaner goes directly into the intake, which is after the turbo. When it goes out the exhaust through the turbo it has largely been burned. Perhaps I'm missing something,

The cleaners go into a vacuum line which is before the turbo charger. There’s no vacuum after the turbo charger.

I'll try and explain this, hopefully without sounding like an ass . If your F350 is a diesel, leave it out of this conversation, whole different deal (no throttle plate).
In old days "vacuum" term covered a lot of stuff (carburetors) it's just a term of measurement for a pressure difference. There is a "vacuum" pressure difference after the throttle plate ( which is after the turbo). So, you have a flow valve (throttle plate) between the turbo and intake.
Under no load at 2k rpm this plate is barely open, under load its wide open.
You will have a pressure difference, which is now measured with a MAP sensor (manifold absolute pressure) that is lower at the manifold on one side of the throttle plate, than it is on the turbo side.

At idle, or even 1500-2000 rpm (where you want to hold the engine while admitting the intake cleaner, also the throttle plate is barely open) with no load, the turbocharger is not "boosting," therefore you still have negative pressure in the intake manifold.

Load vs no-load, that makes sense, thank you.

Is the oil getting to the valves because the crankcase ventilation isn’t working properly? Or is that just the way it works and it’s enough to get past the warranty period? If it’s the latter, I should look at catch cans for the Focus and the Explorer.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
I’m confused why you said it’s all vacuum after the turbo charger? Unless I’m at idle or coasting, both my Focus ST and F350 show boost which means air is being pushed into the combustion chamber, not sucked in like it would with a naturally aspirated engine.

One wouldn’t spray these cleaners into the intake after the turbo as egregore suggested, would they? Is it even possible?

It's not 'all' vacuum (obviously because there is boost w/ a turbo as well), but vacuum, when present, exists between the throttle body and the intake ports. Actually 'egregore' describes it best when he states 'negative pressure in the intake manifold', which eliminates any confusion on terminology when speaking of turbo charged engines.

I wouldn't introduce the IVD cleaners in front of the throttle body, nor would I really want it in the compressor/cold side of the turbo either, as carbon buildup doesn't occur there at all anyway. There are specific cleaners for throttle bodies and they are not even remotely similar to these IVD cleaners for GDI engines. Throttle body cleaners are very 'solvent like' while the GDI IVD cleaners are more viscous. In the case of the the CRC GDI Intake Valve & Turbo Cleaner that I've used (not through the intake but rather to remove carbon from the valve pockets and port dividers), it's rather 'un-solvent like' and kinda oily, similar to kerosene but maybe a bit thicker. It would never evaporate, not matter how long you left it.

The instructions for the CRC product indicate to somewhat rev the engine (just so as not to stall it) while introducing the cleaner into the intake path, and then to shut it off, to allow for heat soak while the cleaner works on the carbon. Then you drive it at highway speed (to blow off the carbon) 'Italian Tune-up Style'!

Luckily (for me) I don't have a 'GDI' Turbo, as both of my Volvos are port fuel injected, so therefore a non-issue for me to figure out how best to use an IVD cleaner on a turbo charged engine. That said, my Audi S5 4.2L V8, which is normally aspirated, COMPLETELY offsets any lack of concern for those cars, as the Audi is ridiculously prone to carbon buildup/IVD, and it's an EXTREMELY involved process to remove it!

quote:

Originally posted by Prefontaine:
… Then just plan for walnut blasting every 25,000 miles.

I wouldn't put up with a modern engine that required that. Even "'carbon-and-valve' jobs," which went out in the 1960s, lasted longer than that. There are all kinds of things that can go wrong, the main ones being getting blast media or carbon chunks down the cylinder and breaking something pulling the (usually) plastic intake manifold, which in itself can be fairly difficult. And "just be careful and nothing will happen" isn't good enough. Sometimes shit happens.

I have a 2012 Volkswagen Passat 3.6L DI V6 that I bought used in January with 108K. The tail pipes were black with carbon deposits.

I used STP Pro Series Intake Valve cleaner ... two cans of it first time. First one can, then a second can a few days later after a good soak and run time. And also ran a bottle of Chevron Techron in the tank.

I also ran it like I stole it for a few miles after the treatment.

The pipes are clean and the engine runs much MUCH better. Mid size sedan 22 city 28 highway.

Of course I only use the recommended top tier 93 octane gasoline when I fill up. I choose Shell.

I plan to use the STP Pro Series just before every oil change.

quote:

Originally posted by Hobbs:

I used STP Pro Series Intake Valve cleaner ... two cans of it first time. First one can, then a second can a few days later after a good soak and run time. And also ran a bottle of Chevron Techron in the tank.

I also ran it like I stole it for a few miles after the treatment.



....I plan to use the STP Pro Series just before every oil change.

Good testimonial. I take it STP Pro Series is available at the usual Auto stores?

What do you mean by "it ran like I stole it for a few miles after the treatment"? It resorted to running worse after a few miles, but not as bad as before treatment?