Route 91 fest Vegas shooting?

October 02, 2017, 11:03 AM

quote:
Originally posted by billnchristy:
quote:
Originally posted by Chance:
My heart grieves for the victims.

Two things stand out to me.

1) That is a lot of rounds down range for 4.5 minutes.

2) To me the shooter was awfully far away. 32 floors up and a 1/4 to 1/3 of a mile away.

It's about 400yds so yeah, 1/4 mile

I'm not going to speculate on motive or conspiracy and I don't think anyone else should either. However given the rapid fire heard on the video, the distance and elevation, it would appear that this was simply a spray lead at an crowded area attack, clearly trying to do as much damage as fast as possible.

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343 - Never Forget

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October 02, 2017, 11:05 AM

IndyRob

Absolutely heartbreaking. Apparently the perp took his own life after his spree.

Fucking jackwad.

October 02, 2017, 11:05 AM

cmr076

quote:
Originally posted by RNshooter:
lots of the wounded were brought in by private cars. Strangers just snatched up wounded strangers and drove them to the neartest hospital they could find. Many of them were not equipped for GSW care but they did the best that they could.

This one is going to be hard to get over.

Stay safe,

Bruce

http://www.dailywire.com/news/..._campaign=benshapiro

October 02, 2017, 11:06 AM

Balzé Halzé

quote:
Originally posted by joatmonv:

Something isn't right.

Well, that's the understatement of the day.

There doesn't have to be a reason, at least not like the one you're looking for. He may have been just a very angry man who finally exploded. Sometimes that's all it is. As I said earlier, senseless in the extreme.

October 02, 2017, 11:09 AM

saigonsmuggler

"Expert" on Foxnews said that the rate of fire was inconsistent thus leading him to believe that a bump-fire system was used to simulate full auto fire.

October 02, 2017, 11:11 AM

Jimbo54

I don't have anything to contribute to the conversation except to say that I can't wrap my head around this. The idea that a 64 yr old white guy could have recently converted to Islam and become radicalized in a short period of time makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

In a way I'm hoping that it comes out that he had a brain tumor like Charles Whitman, the Texas tower shooter. At this early stage, it is the only thing that would make sense to me.

After hearing reports from people at the scene, it amazes me the heroic actions of concert goers trying to save victims. There are reports of some that were putting their fingers in wound channels and others carrying people on their shoulders to safety. Unbelievable how so many could react heroically to something that horrific under those conditions.

I pray for the victims and their families. I can't imagine this kind of loss.

October 02, 2017, 11:12 AM

cmr076

quote:
Originally posted by Chance:
My heart grieves for the victims.

Two things stand out to me.

1) That is a lot of rounds down range for 4.5 minutes.

2) To me the shooter was awfully far away. 32 floors up and a 1/4 to 1/3 of a mile away.

I would imagine that with so many people shoulder to shoulder and nuts to butts packed in an area, it wouldn't take a ton of aiming to do a lot of damage, especially with a larger round.

October 02, 2017, 11:14 AM

jhe888

I heard an audio clip of shooting. It sounded like full auto? Any word on that? Maybe I hear the police? Maybe I misheard?

October 02, 2017, 11:15 AM

TigerDore

quote:
Originally posted by a1abdj:
quote:
I don't think he had enough information to give reliable advice to anyone.

Odds are good he didn't even hear the shooting. Those guys are wearing custom ear pieces that block out sound. More likely than not a voice in his ear told him to evacuate the stage.

This makes the most sense. Aldean probably had no idea what was happening. Even if he did, all of us would like to think we would be heroic in the moment, but unless we have experience and training in law enforcement or military combat, we don't know how we would react.

.

October 02, 2017, 11:16 AM

joatmonv

quote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
quote:
Originally posted by joatmonv:

Something isn't right.

Well, that's the understatement of the day.

There doesn't have to be a reason, at least not like the one you're looking for. He may have been just a very angry man who finally exploded. Sometimes that's all it is. As I said earlier, senseless in the extreme.

Absolutely senseless and if it was anger, so be it. I'm not buying it though.
We've all probably seen an angry outburst in our lives, hopefully not violent, and they're exactly that. Outbursts that no one saw coming and spur of the moment brought on by anger. This was planned.

October 02, 2017, 11:19 AM

Shaql

There is video of him singing and you can hear the gun fire and just turns and leaves. I'm sure he was told to evacuate. I doubt anyone could hear the gunfire over the music.

Not going to link it here tho.

October 02, 2017, 11:19 AM

ensigmatic

quote:
Originally posted by cmr076:
I would imagine that with so many people shoulder to shoulder and nuts to butts packed in an area, it wouldn't take a ton of aiming to do a lot of damage, especially with a larger round.

I have never felt comfortable in such crowds.

Back when I used to go to concerts I stuck to smaller venues or I chose seating, rather than joining the mass down on the floor, in front of the stage.

For example: Went to an Aerosmith concert at the Pontiac (Mich) Silverdome, back in the day. It was a great concert, but what was going on down on the floor I wanted no part of.

These days I avoid crowded venues of all types.

This is so utterly sad

"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher

October 02, 2017, 11:20 AM

ChicagoSigMan

All this speculation on what kind of weapon was used is pointless. There is no point guessing whether it was full auto, belt-fed, bump-fire, semi-auto modified to be full auto, legal or illegal, etc. The police have recovered the weapons and will let us know soon enough exactly what they were.

October 02, 2017, 11:23 AM

Ackks

quote:
Originally posted by Rightwire:
quote:
Originally posted by Ackks:
I just saw the video of Jason Aldean running off the stage and his fans standing there confused. It's a horrifying situation, so I'm not trying to bash the guy, but didn't he owe it to his fans to at least yell there is a sniper get down? Again, I can't fault the guy for how he reacted, but I don't get why he couldn't have said something like that. Maybe I'm wrong and that would have caused people to panic and get hurt.

He is a performer, an artist, not a first responder and likely has never been in a SHTF situation. He did what everyone else did he panicked then sought cover.

Most Americans don't immediately slip into an incident mitigation mindset when things go south. I would hardly blame him, although I'm sure many will take this as an opportunity to gain some 'street cred' on social media.

Totally fair points and I said I didn't fault him. It was just a strange visual to see him bolt off stage and hear his fans say what is going on. I was honestly asking and not bashing him. He probably did the right thing.

October 02, 2017, 11:23 AM

corsair

quote:
Originally posted by jhe888:
I heard an audio clip of shooting. It sounded like full auto? Any word on that? Maybe I hear the police? Maybe I misheard?

Based purely on the audio, it sounded like a low-cyclic belt-feed. There's a lot of variables that contribute to how audio comes across, echo and resonance among many factors that can alter sounds. If anything, he may have loaded up a bunch of 60 & 90-rd mags and kept up a consistent pull.

October 02, 2017, 11:27 AM

Rightwire

quote:
Originally posted by corsair:
quote:
Originally posted by jhe888:
I heard an audio clip of shooting. It sounded like full auto? Any word on that? Maybe I hear the police? Maybe I misheard?

Based purely on the audio, it sounded like a low-cyclic belt-feed. There's a lot of variables that contribute to how audio comes across, echo and resonance among many factors that can alter sounds. If anything, he may have loaded up a bunch of 60 & 90-rd mags and kept up a consistent pull.

I've seen a lot of video, they are running it endlessly and something does stand out.

I love Gatling guns, always have. I've watched dozens of videos on them and even seen one fired live at a demonstration. The tempo of fire that I hear every time I hear that video trips 'hand cranked' in my mind. Maybe it is just acoustics and echo but it seems like the tempo isn't consistent, sometimes faster, sometimes slower, I don't recall ever hearing an M-16, M60, SAW, M2 or any other full auto weapon vary tempo in firing.

Perhaps these were just semi auto rifles with those hand crank trigger mechanisms attached

October 02, 2017, 11:31 AM

leavemebe

Heartbreaking beyond belief. My thoughts are with all those murdered and injured as well as their families. I can't imagine the suffering.

October 02, 2017, 11:32 AM

Yanert98

I am just reading about this.
Absolutely heart breaking.
My prayers go out to them.
Such an evil bastard.

October 02, 2017, 11:32 AM

Hound Dog

They make (or at least they used to) hand cranks for Ruger 10-22s. The crank would activate the trigger as the handle was turned (multiple times per rotation, IIRC). It provided for rapid fire without a 'bump fire' or full-auto conversion.

Maybe he had an AR with a butt-load of 100-round mags and fitted a hand-crank to it?

Or maybe he bought a SAW (or multiple ones) - they sell them in semi-auto form for the commercial market, and IIRC, they are mag- AND belt-fed. A local gun store has one on display. If he got a hand-crank for it and fired from a belt, it would be almost indiscernible from a full-auto weapon.

October 02, 2017, 11:36 AM

Bisleyblackhawk

quote:
Originally posted by Rightwire:

Perhaps these were just semi auto rifles with those hand crank trigger mechanisms attached

Or one of those "binary triggers".

********************************************************

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