The security guard messed up his plans as he didn’t want to start shooting yet. But he had to, as the guard approached.
Then he’s panicked and pissed off his position was given up.
So he grabs the hammer and realizes that it’s an absolute bitch trying to break through the thick glassed windows.
All in all, it took him six minutes to started shooting at the crowd after he initially shot the guard.
_______________ Mind. Over. Matter.
October 12, 2017, 08:31 AM
holdem
quote:
Originally posted by Copefree:
So he grabs the hammer and realizes that it’s an absolute bitch trying to break through the thick glassed windows.
All in all, it took him six minutes to started shooting at the crowd after he initially shot the guard.
That was a question I had been meaning to ask. I know that glass is thick and tough. And I can see where it might be hard to break, even with a hammer. So why didn't he just shoot it? How tough is that glass? What happens when a .308 round hits it from 25 feet away?
October 12, 2017, 08:32 AM
sigspecops
Its crazy that in the videos some people are running and screaming and the others are meandering around like nothing is happening and what does it take to get someone to stop using their phone? If phones had been around when Mt. Vesuvius rained fire and ash down on Pompeii, we'd have thousands of perfectly preserved statues, trying to update facebook one last time.
No one's life, liberty or property is safe while the legislature is in session.- Mark Twain
October 12, 2017, 08:40 AM
JALLEN
quote:
Originally posted by Copefree: The security guard messed up his plans as he didn’t want to start shooting yet. But he had to, as the guard approached.
Then he’s panicked and pissed off his position was given up.
So he grabs the hammer and realizes that it’s an absolute bitch trying to break through the thick glassed windows.
All in all, it took him six minutes to started shooting at the crowd after he initially shot the guard.
I don’t recall ever being in the Mandalay Bay, but I have stayed quite a few times at Bellagio and other of the larger hotels. It can take most of 6 minutes to walk from the lobby, up the elevator and out a wing to an end room.
Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.
When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson
"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown
October 12, 2017, 08:41 AM
smithnsig
Uh oh. The "security guard" is not registered on the Nevada registry. He might be in a little trouble, and the hotel for hiring him. Or, he's not a security guard.
----------------------------------------------------------- TCB all the time...
October 12, 2017, 08:46 AM
Georgeair
quote:
Originally posted by smithnsig: Uh oh. The "security guard" is not registered on the Nevada registry. He might be in a little trouble, and the hotel for hiring him. Or, he's not a security guard.
There's the second gunman you've all been looking for!
You only have integrity once. - imprezaguy02
October 12, 2017, 08:48 AM
holdem
If the info is now correct, there were shots fired at two employees, one was hit, and there was no 911 call, then MGM Resorts might as well open their vaults to those two employees and the 22,000 people or surviving family from the concert.
October 12, 2017, 09:11 AM
Balzé Halzé
quote:
Originally posted by holdem: If the info is now correct, there were shots fired at two employees, one was hit, and there was no 911 call, then MGM Resorts might as well open their vaults to those two employees and the 22,000 people or surviving family from the concert.
I just don't know where you guys come up with this nonsense. Everyone always leaves out the human factor in these events when talking after the fact. You seem to expect instantaneous reaction to information being received that is extremely out of the ordinary and which may take a little bit of time to process, figure out exactly what's going, and react.
I'm reminded of the movie Sully where the investigators were skeptical of the pilot's actions until they considered the human factor. And in any case, it doesn't seem like we have near enough credible information on the timeline yet to make any definitive judgments.
~Alan Acta Non Verba NRA Life Member (Patron) God, Family, Guns, Country
Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan
October 12, 2017, 09:21 AM
TXJIM
I watched the interview with the maintenance guy live. He stated that he took cover in the entry alcove of a guest suite door as the shooter sprayed rounds into the hallway. He stated that he immediately called out on the radio that he and the security guard were being shot at on the 32nd floor where he had been dispatched. I am not sure what "human factor" would prevent someone on that radio system from dialing 911 to immediately report a shooter on the property.
______________________________ “I'd like to know why well-educated idiots keep apologizing for lazy and complaining people who think the world owes them a living.” ― John Wayne
October 12, 2017, 09:34 AM
RogueJSK
quote:
Originally posted by sigspecops: Its crazy that in the videos some people are running and screaming and the others are meandering around like nothing is happening and what does it take to get someone to stop using their phone?
In some of the videos, there are people actively trying to convince others to stop fleeing. "Don't worry... It's just fireworks. Stop running."
People react differently in stressful/violent situations. Denial is not uncommon, especially in situations like this where the source/extent of the threat is uncertain.
October 12, 2017, 09:41 AM
sdy
I'm w TXJIM on this one.
You can listen to the recording when the maintenance person says "Call the police. Someone's firing a gun up here. Someone's firing a rifle on the 32nd floor down the hallway."
"it doesn't seem like we have near enough credible information on the timeline yet to make any definitive judgments."
that is true. Not making "definitive judgments". Just observing very conflicting reports that by 11 days after the shooting should be resolved.
However, it is very disturbing that ABC reported the FBI thought the time line was off and had the guard brought back for another interview. Sheriff Lombardo had let Campos leave town.
We haven't seen any interviews w Campos yet.This message has been edited. Last edited by: sdy,
October 12, 2017, 09:44 AM
Balzé Halzé
The human factor would be the people hearing the radio call and looking at each other asking "what did he say? A man with a rifle?" And then radioing back to clarify while at the same time getting a supervisor or someone higher up. Maybe then the engineer didn't radio back right away to clarify because well, he's being shot at. We're talking minutes here right?
By the way, was 911 ever called by the hotel?
Seems there is still a lot we don't know. But what I'm reading here makes me think some people expect immediate, instantaneous, perfect reaction to an extra-ordinary event. Most people don't operate that way.
~Alan Acta Non Verba NRA Life Member (Patron) God, Family, Guns, Country
Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan
October 12, 2017, 09:46 AM
a1abdj
quote:
Its crazy that in the videos some people are running and screaming and the others are meandering around like nothing is happening
quote:
People react differently in stressful/violent situations. Denial is not uncommon,
Some people are calm and rational during emergencies. They understand that freaking out is more likely to get them or others injured or killed.
The ones running around like chickens with their heads cut off? Those are the ones that you want to avoid.
An ABC reporter on the video asks Assistant Sheriff Roberts if there was a call and Roberts says they may have been in the "process of creating that event but it didn't quite get out to everybody".
October 12, 2017, 10:27 AM
jsbcody
Here is a probable time line. Two employees are in the hallway, one is hit by gunfire and they radio it in. The first supervisor asks the two employees are they absolutely sure and to confirm it. Meanwhile he/she looks in the MGM policy/procedure manual which reads "NO BAD Publicity! What Happens in Vegas and on MGM Properties, stays in Vegas until our in house corporate counsel advises us what to do." First supervisor punts it up to the next line supervisor, who calls the main supervisor who is off site.....6 minutes pass and scumbag starts his shooting rampage.
October 12, 2017, 10:29 AM
parabellum
quote:
Originally posted by sdy:
quote:
By the way, was 911 ever called by the hotel?
An ABC reporter on the video asks Assistant Sheriff Roberts if there was a call and Roberts says they may have been in the "process of creating that event but it didn't quite get out to everybody".
Why do so many people have such great difficulty in speaking plainly?
Drop the convolutions and the police-speak crap and answer yes-or-no questions with freaking yes or no!
October 12, 2017, 10:31 AM
zipriderson
quote:
I know that glass is thick and tough. And I can see where it might be hard to break, even with a hammer. So why didn't he just shoot it?
Originally posted by 46and2: What would Gary Coleman be in?
Over his head?
October 12, 2017, 11:44 AM
Hound Dog
quote:
Originally posted by a1abdj:
Some people are calm and rational during emergencies. They understand that freaking out is more likely to get them or others injured or killed.
The ones running around like chickens with their heads cut off? Those are the ones that you want to avoid.
I read a book which mentioned peoples' reactions during the Boston Marathon bombing. Some panicked and ran. Some just sat there, shocked into inaction. Others 'ran towards the sound of the guns.'
One really doesn't know how they will react until they experience such an event.
Now, the ones standing around getting phone videos are just stupid. . .
Fear God and Dread Nought Admiral of the Fleet Sir Jacky Fisher
