How is this not attempted murder?


Law enforcement in Harris County, Texas, is warning locals to remain alert after flyers placed on deputies' vehicles were found tainted with the drug fentanyl.

The sheriff's office announced Monday that paper flyers, which had been placed on the windshields of roughly 11 to 12 official vehicles parked on the street outside their Houston facility the same day, "have tested positive" for fentanyl.

One sergeant with the force who touched one of the flyers received medical treatment before being released from the hospital, Sheriff Ed Gonzalez told reporters.


The officer "came to her vehicle and found a flyer fixed to the windshield. She picked it up, didn't think nothing of it but as she drove to her destination she began feeling a little bit lightheaded," Gonzalez said, noting she also suffered other symptoms.

An investigation remains ongoing.

"Fentanyl is an opioid," Gonzalez said. "It's very deadly, it's one of the major concerns in law enforcement these days because of the high number of overdoses that we've seen in other parts of the country."

The sheriff warned nearby residents and locals to be on high alert because officials are not sure if the flyer was intentionally placed on the deputies' cars or if they were "randomly placed here."

Gonzalez said he wants Harris County residents "to be aware of how easily this deadly, toxic opioid could be transferred. It could just be on a simple flyer."

The opioid crisis that has plagued a number of states is killing more than 115 people in the U.S. daily.


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018...aced-on-vehicle.html

We hear these stories all of the time, but I have yet to see a toxicology report for any of them. Why not?

They tested the flyer and it's positive. What about the blood of the victim?

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
We hear these stories all of the time, but I have yet to see a toxicology report for any of them. Why not?

They tested the flyer and it's positive. What about the blood of the victim?

I still don't understand how this stuff can be handled by the dealers if it's so toxic. How can their customers get high on it if what you can absorb through your skin from a flyer can be so dangerous, and how can the dealers even cut it?

It’s not hard to handle. Gloves and if it’s in a powder form a mask. I handle it at work from time to time and have never had an issue.

That stuff is stout. I was given .25mg after a kidney stone surgery last summer
0 pain for several hours, once I woke up.

Color me skeptical.

This fentanyl scare is a whole lot of hype, in my opinion.

Perhaps I’m wrong. But I don’t think I am.

Yes, the potential is theoretically there. But I’ve not read a single accidental exposure that sounded like an opioid overdose.

Yes, perhaps the pharmacologists here can shed a little light on this.

True, there is a transdermal fentanyl formulation, but it is not in a powdered form.

There is not a chance in hell, if memory serves from my own graduate level pharmacology education, that fentanyl, or carfentanyl, in powdered form (or even liquid for that matter on unbroken skin), can be absorbed transdermally to any extent that would be dangerous.

I've personally had a lot of fentanyl touch my skin over the course of my career. Guess what? No overdoses. No need for Narcan. No issues whatsoever.

I call horseshit.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
Yes, perhaps the pharmacologists here can shed a little light on this.

True, there is a transdermal fentanyl formulation, but it is not in a powdered form.

There is not a chance in hell, if memory serves from my own graduate level pharmacology education, that fentanyl, or carfentanyl, in powdered form (or even liquid for that matter on unbroken skin), can be absorbed transdermally to any extent that would be dangerous.

I've personally had a lot of fentanyl touch my skin over the course of my career. Guess what? No overdoses. No need for Narcan. No issues whatsoever.

I call horseshit.

What's the difference between transdermal fentanyl and "normal" fentanyl? If someone wanted to perpetrate an attack like this, why couldn't they use transdermal fentanyl?

Several years ago, my wife had a big surgery and was sent home with fentanyl patches (skin patches, like the nicotine stop-smoking latches, except smaller). They effectively controlled severe pain. I have no doubt that if you can get enough through your skin to control that kind of pain, you can get enough through your skin to be dangerous.

Of course, it may also be the case that transfer through the skin happens slowly, and the only reason the patches work is because they stay on for hours. I don't have any idea. If so, I guess an attacker could mix the fentanyl into some liquid or gel carrier that would transfer from the contaminated item to the skin and stay there until it was wiped or washed off.

I call bs also. No way to pick up a piece of garbage and instantly be dosed with it.
I was on patches for years and even when I was late putting a new one on & in detox mode, it took hrs to relieve the detox.
And patches have a catalyst helping it to be absorbed.
Now if one was to get it on their fingers then eat or get a dip ..... Eat a donut ..... LMBO

This story - that you can be killed by fentanyl that you merely touch - has currency at the moment. I also have my doubts.

If it is potentially fatal, and if you knew someone might be exposed and intended that exposure to kill someone, there might be possible attempted homicide that could be charged.

But if there was no intent to poison someone, and the underlying crime would have been reckless homicide or negligent homicide, most states don't have the crime of attempted reckless/negligent homicide. Think about it, it is hard say how you could attempt to be reckless.

Liability for attempt crimes is a very interesting topic in law. This is Wiki, but a good introduction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempt

First and foremost, if somebody intentionally attempted to harm somebody they should be held responsible. It makes no difference in my mind if the victim was ultimately harmed or not. If you lace something with drugs in an attempt to put another unknowing person in contact, straight to jail you go.

But I am getting tired of all of the false fear and concern about so many different issues. There are so many stories about people coming in contact with fentanyl and either dying or needing life saving measures. At the same time experts say it's simply not likely that this is the case.

So if you're going to claim you OD'd due to contact, I want to see the toxicology report. Otherwise I'm going to have to assume that you're a drama queen.

quote:

Originally posted by hbabler:
It’s not hard to handle. Gloves and if it’s in a powder form a mask. I handle it at work from time to time and have never had an issue.

That presumes you know you are handling it....

I have a childhood friend who works in the forensic department for a county sheriff .... a month ago he handled a paper bag that contained drugs.... he had on the basic latex gloves.. what he did not realize until afterwards was that his unprotected arm touched the paper on the bag which had this fentanyl on it... took him over a week to recover.

As a side note, he pointed out a disparity in the legal system.. So they arrest one of these drug dealers.... they post bail... but they are not employed... where does the cash come from to post bail.. and where is the IRS in this... you don't have any visible (legal) means of support but you can come up with 10-20 thousand dollars in cash to get out of jail?

I could see an opioid naive (sp?) person who suddenly felt like they'd taken a few hydrocodone pills being tipsy or woozy or whatever. I don't equate that to thinking "OMG, I'm about to die."

If you've had opioids in the past, you'd probably recognize that same feeling and just roll with it...

Not sure how you would ever need a week to recover from a dose of painkiller.

Could this just be another case of the high false positive rate of field drug tests?

quote:

Originally posted by SBrooks:
Not sure how you would ever need a week to recover from a dose of painkiller.

Precisely.

Opioids kill you by making you so gorked out of your mind that you forget to breathe.

So unless they passed out and turned blue, it’s not an opioid overdose.

Saying otherwise makes one lose credibility.

Wasn’t there a thread posted some time in the last year about a police K-9 that went through a drug house and nearly died because it absorbed fentanyl through cracks in the pads of his paws?

I know next to nothing about opioids and defer to you guys. More of these stories are starting to come out and I wonder. If it’s so lethal and so potent that touching it will fuck you up and kill you, how is it that this stuff actually makes it out into public without killing whole segments of society? Because I’ve got plenty of experience existing in the spheres of street junkies, I am unconvinced that they somehow know special ways to handle this super-toxic stuff without expiring. Their entire existence is anathema to the idea of special handling of anything dangerous in order to preserve one’s life.

Plus opioids have a half life thst let’s them leave your system very very quickly. To the point they are not detected on urine screen within a few days of taking them

If the person in this example needed a week to recover something else happened. Fetanyl has an elimination half life of 2-4 hours, which means it takes 11-22 hours to completely leave your system. He was not getting over fetanyl for a week

quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:

quote:

Originally posted by SBrooks:
Not sure how you would ever need a week to recover from a dose of painkiller.

Precisely.

Opioids kill you by making you so gorked out of your mind that you forget to breathe.

So unless they passed out and turned blue, it’s not an opioid overdose.

Saying otherwise makes one lose credibility.

I know of at least one solvent that will carry almost any chemical through your skin, is not a controlled substance in and of itself, and can easily be ordered through a variety of websites and businesses.