SIGforum
St. Louis Police Announce Sale of Vintage Tommy Guns
May 31, 2017, 04:20 AM
Sig2340St. Louis Police Announce Sale of Vintage Tommy Guns
The police could have issued the 27 Thompsons to their most capable officers (e.g., highest conviction rate, highest scores shooting, certified firearms enthusiast) and made 27 officers really happy for zero cost.
Nice is overrated
"It's every freedom-loving individual's duty to lie to the government."
Airsoftguy, June 29, 2018
May 31, 2017, 06:33 AM
JackBlundellquote:
Originally posted by Excam_Man:
The Tommy guns look to be in very good shape! Wish they were $2200 and not $22K.
Those old Thompson subguns will sell for not less than $30,000
May 31, 2017, 07:56 AM
jljonesquote:
Originally posted by Sig2340:
The police could have issued the 27 Thompsons to their most capable officers (e.g., highest conviction rate, highest scores shooting, certified firearms enthusiast) and made 27 officers really happy for zero cost.
Still a shoulder fired pistol. And on the down side, mounting lights, sights, useable slings, are tough on these guns.
The PD is making the right move. We should be happy that new NFA Tommy Gun owners are fixin to get a new family member.
May 31, 2017, 08:03 AM
chellim1quote:
Originally posted by KevinCW:
This is not the first time this was tried... and not the first time they tried to get ARs. And they NEED them.
Yep.
quote:
Still a shoulder fired pistol. And on the down side, mounting lights, sights, useable slings, are tough on these guns.
The PD is making the right move. We should be happy that new NFA Tommy Gun owners are fixin to get a new family member.
The modern ARs are a lot more useful to the SLPD. Everyone wins in this case.
"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown
"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor May 31, 2017, 08:16 AM
chellim1I have no problem with the Tommy Gun sale or the purchase of ARs. But it won't address the major problems of the City of St. Louis. The biggest problem with the City of St. Louis is bloated government.
There is a is deeply flawed proposal to merge the City and County which is being pushed by Rex Sinquefield and Gene McNary and his son Cole McNary. The proposal calls for the division of St. Louis City and St. Louis County into 9 boroughs. It completely ignores the deep financial operational problems of St. Louis City.
These include:
• The City's taxes are $1,242 per citizen vs. the County's $449 per citizen. The City's are
2.8 times greater than the County's.
• The City's total debt is about $1,900,000,000 or $5,967 per citizen vs. the County's
$617,934,308 total debt, or $617 per citizen. Thus, the City's debt is almost 10 times
greater per citizen than the County's debt.
• The City's salary and fringe benefits in the 3 major classifications average (96,160 +
94,738 + 118,468)/3 or $103,122. The County's salary and fringe benefits in the 3 major
classifications average (84,671 + 42,140 + 52,630)/3, or $59,813. The City's average is
1.7 times greater than the County's average. The average wages in Missouri are
$43,610.
• The City has 48 citizens for every employee (6,703). The County has 248 citizens for
every employee (4,031). Thus, the City has almost 5 times the amount of employees per
citizen than the County!
• And these employees all make the 1.7 times greater City average salary and fringes of
$103,122 vs. the County's $59,813.
• Here is a way for the City to save $150,000,000:
o Decrease the salary and fringes of 3,464 employees or 51% of 6,703 employees
to the County average salary and fringes of $59,813.
• Here is a way for the City to save $290,000,000:
o Decrease the salary and fringes of all 6,703 employees to the County's average
salary and fringes of $59,813.
• The City has annual debt service of about $77,000,000 on runway 111/29 at Lambert
Field which should have never been built!
These are the core of the financial disasters that the City wants to offload on the County.
"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown
"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor May 31, 2017, 09:33 AM
jhe888quote:
Originally posted by YooperSigs:
Many years ago, I had the chance to shoot an original Thompson.
I have lusted since that day for one. My number one grail gun.
22K.....
$22K is the price the dealer is paying. I don't know what retail will be. $30K?
The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything. May 31, 2017, 10:43 AM
LtJLsome 10 or 12 years ago, the Ottawa County, Ohio Sheriff's Office discovered they had a mint Colt 1921 Thompson. Colt flew a guy out from Hartford, and traded them a whole big buncha M4s for the thing. I'm told it's on the wall in the Colt museum now.
May 31, 2017, 11:11 AM
h2oysquote:
Originally posted by chellim1:
I have no problem with the Tommy Gun sale or the purchase of ARs. But it won't address the major problems of the City of St. Louis. The biggest problem with the City of St. Louis is bloated government.
There is a is deeply flawed proposal to merge the City and County which is being pushed by Rex Sinquefield and Gene McNary and his son Cole McNary. The proposal calls for the division of St. Louis City and St. Louis County into 9 boroughs. It completely ignores the deep financial operational problems of St. Louis City.
These include:
• The City's taxes are $1,242 per citizen vs. the County's $449 per citizen. The City's are
2.8 times greater than the County's.
• The City's total debt is about $1,900,000,000 or $5,967 per citizen vs. the County's
$617,934,308 total debt, or $617 per citizen. Thus, the City's debt is almost 10 times
greater per citizen than the County's debt.
• The City's salary and fringe benefits in the 3 major classifications average (96,160 +
94,738 + 118,468)/3 or $103,122. The County's salary and fringe benefits in the 3 major
classifications average (84,671 + 42,140 + 52,630)/3, or $59,813. The City's average is
1.7 times greater than the County's average. The average wages in Missouri are
$43,610.
• The City has 48 citizens for every employee (6,703). The County has 248 citizens for
every employee (4,031). Thus, the City has almost 5 times the amount of employees per
citizen than the County!
• And these employees all make the 1.7 times greater City average salary and fringes of
$103,122 vs. the County's $59,813.
• Here is a way for the City to save $150,000,000:
o Decrease the salary and fringes of 3,464 employees or 51% of 6,703 employees
to the County average salary and fringes of $59,813.
• Here is a way for the City to save $290,000,000:
o Decrease the salary and fringes of all 6,703 employees to the County's average
salary and fringes of $59,813.
• The City has annual debt service of about $77,000,000 on runway 111/29 at Lambert
Field which should have never been built!
These are the core of the financial disasters that the City wants to offload on the County.
Hi Chellim,
As a native St. Louisian I find these stats eye opening. Do you have a source you can share for the statistics? Next I find it very interesting that St. Louis City refused, way back when, to be part of StL County. That was the time when StL County was all farm land, not generating sizable tax revenue, and the City did not want to "share" with the County. Hence StL City is one of the very few in the US that is not in a County.
May 31, 2017, 11:15 AM
chellim1Fred Sauer does a lot of research on this.
I'll email you the source at the email in your profile.
"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown
"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor May 31, 2017, 11:29 AM
RogueJSKquote:
Originally posted by LtJL:
some 10 or 12 years ago, the Ottawa County, Ohio Sheriff's Office discovered they had a mint Colt 1921 Thompson. Colt flew a guy out from Hartford, and traded them a whole big buncha M4s for the thing. I'm told it's on the wall in the Colt museum now.
The Forsyth County Sheriff's Office in North Carolina traded a pair of Thompsons for ARs back in 2014.
Two transferable M1928 Thompsons, which had been owned by the FCSO since 1934, in exchange for 88 Bushmaster ARs valued at ~$60,000.
May 31, 2017, 12:00 PM
jsbcodyquote:
Originally posted by Scuba Steve Sig:
Also, this chaps me as a former STL citizen. The sale of these years ago could have financed more officers. STL needs more boots on the ground, not more AR15s. Every car already had a 9mm carbine in them already. You don't hear stories of underarmed officers losing shootouts in STL, you hear cries of not enough officers in the right place. I could be wrong, but if you ask an officer which he would rather have, an AR or backup, I'm guessing he would rather have backup.
They would overwhelmingly rather have the AR15. I know lots of STL City coppers. More bodies always end up as more bodies in stations and headquarters as housecats than on the streets. STL City manpower goes up and goes down all the time, equipment in the car usually stays.
May 31, 2017, 12:27 PM
Dusty78I toured the gun cage for the Passaic County Sheriff dept in NJ which overseas places like Paterson along with the Paterson police. These are guns that are no longer in use or stuff that was confiscated. I saw BAR's, Thompson's, Grease guns, MP5's, and even what looked like one of those water cooled WWI machine guns. It was pretty cool. They also had a wide assortment of cool cars...a lot were confiscated from drug dealers. I bought a Trans Am from them that was used for undercover stuff. It had like 20k miles on it and it was like 10 years old at the time.
_______________________________________________
Use thumb-size bullets to create fist-size holes.
May 31, 2017, 01:12 PM
h2oysquote:
Originally posted by chellim1:
Fred Sauer does a lot of research on this.
I'll email you the source at the email in your profile.
Got it and thank you.
May 31, 2017, 02:00 PM
jsbcodyquote:
Originally posted by chellim1:
I have no problem with the Tommy Gun sale or the purchase of ARs. But it won't address the major problems of the City of St. Louis. The biggest problem with the City of St. Louis is bloated government.
There is a is deeply flawed proposal to merge the City and County which is being pushed by Rex Sinquefield and Gene McNary and his son Cole McNary. The proposal calls for the division of St. Louis City and St. Louis County into 9 boroughs. It completely ignores the deep financial operational problems of St. Louis City.
These include:
• The City's taxes are $1,242 per citizen vs. the County's $449 per citizen. The City's are
2.8 times greater than the County's.
• The City's total debt is about $1,900,000,000 or $5,967 per citizen vs. the County's
$617,934,308 total debt, or $617 per citizen. Thus, the City's debt is almost 10 times
greater per citizen than the County's debt.
• The City's salary and fringe benefits in the 3 major classifications average (96,160 +
94,738 + 118,468)/3 or $103,122. The County's salary and fringe benefits in the 3 major
classifications average (84,671 + 42,140 + 52,630)/3, or $59,813. The City's average is
1.7 times greater than the County's average. The average wages in Missouri are
$43,610.
• The City has 48 citizens for every employee (6,703). The County has 248 citizens for
every employee (4,031). Thus, the City has almost 5 times the amount of employees per
citizen than the County!
• And these employees all make the 1.7 times greater City average salary and fringes of
$103,122 vs. the County's $59,813.
• Here is a way for the City to save $150,000,000:
o Decrease the salary and fringes of 3,464 employees or 51% of 6,703 employees
to the County average salary and fringes of $59,813.
• Here is a way for the City to save $290,000,000:
o Decrease the salary and fringes of all 6,703 employees to the County's average
salary and fringes of $59,813.
• The City has annual debt service of about $77,000,000 on runway 111/29 at Lambert
Field which should have never been built!
These are the core of the financial disasters that the City wants to offload on the County.
A-FREAKING-MEN!!!!!!!!!!! Preach it chellim1!!!
May 31, 2017, 05:21 PM
rscalzoWe had a few Thompsons back in the early 70's along with one of the first M-16's off the line. A three digit SN. They were all traded for some Ruger AC556K's and some 870's.
May 31, 2017, 09:42 PM
HCMquote:
Originally posted by JDSigManiac:
quote:
Originally posted by Scuba Steve Sig:
Also, this chaps me as a former STL citizen. The sale of these years ago could have financed more officers. STL needs more boots on the ground, not more AR15s. Every car already had a 9mm carbine in them already. You don't hear stories of underarmed officers losing shootouts in STL, you hear cries of not enough officers in the right place. I could be wrong, but if you ask an officer which he would rather have, an AR or backup, I'm guessing he would rather have backup.
Assuming 50k year in salary plus benefits and equipment, that cash would pay for less than 10 officers for 1 year with no way to fund them next year.
Correct plus that does not cover recruiting, hiring and training costs.
May 31, 2017, 09:53 PM
HCMquote:
Originally posted by Sig2340:
The police could have issued the 27 Thompsons to their most capable officers (e.g., highest conviction rate, highest scores shooting, certified firearms enthusiast) and made 27 officers really happy for zero cost.
I like cool guns as much as the next guy but SMG's in general and Thompson in particular are obsolete for LE use. The STLPD would have to source .45 ammo and conduct regular training and qualifications. Not to mention the logistics of sourcing sourcing spare parts and skilled armorer support to run these guns operationally. An LE or MIL service gun leads a hard life. These guns have earned their retirement.
Unless congress changes federal law there are a finaite number of transferable machine guns in the U.S., 22 more transferable Thompsons in private hands is a win in and of itself.