quote:

Originally posted by flesheatingvirus:
I do agree with your basic position. Just because the founders did it has no bearing on NECESSITY.

HOWEVER, if it only takes 15 seconds of my life to sit through it, then who gives a damn? If you want to pray, have at it. I'll think about where I'm going to lunch or check my email. Usually the typical BS that gets thrown around in any meeting takes up orders of magnitude more time than this does.

Choose your battles.

Agreed. And, the kind of people who want to pray to a Judeo/Christian God are likely to have a much more thoughtful and beneficial approach to governance than militant atheists or militant anti-Christian anti-Jew crusaders.

Government should neither promote nor denigrate any particular religion, that is all. I have no problem with brief generic prayers to open a meeting.

quote:

Originally posted by Fly-Sig:
... the kind of people who want to pray to a Judeo/Christian God are likely to have a much more thoughtful and beneficial approach to governance...

If only we had a concrete example of that...

The reason our society today is the way it is, is because we take God out of everything or at least try to. We push Him farther away in our lives and look at us now. We have more evil and violence everyday and it only increases.

But... but... but... "IN GOD WE TRUST" it's on our MUNNY!!! Isn't that enough?

Separation of state and church. Do your prayers at your own home or private events, but leave it out of public functions. Seems reasonable to me.

quote:

Originally posted by patw:
The reason our society today is the way it is, is because we take God out of everything or at least try to. We push Him farther away in our lives and look at us now. We have more evil and violence everyday and it only increases.

we need all the help we can get, let us pray...

I have several different thoughts on this:

I don’t have a strong position for or against prayer at public meetings. I get the church and state argument, but I think it may be overblown on this topic.

If one finds the prayers a waste of time, I’d ask how many meetings they’ve been to and what percentage of the time in those meetings has been productive? Sometimes one “goes along to get along”. This includes not being the dick judging whether everyone else sufficiently focused, and focused on the right things, and it also includes letting the group make the decision.

If you are against the idea of prayer, there is absolutely nothing wrong with voting against the motion. This absolutely doesn’t require being such an obnoxious Cee You Next Tuesday.

Heck, if you’re not sure, feel free to abstain. At the end of the day though, once the votes are counted, put your big boy or girl pants on and live with the majority decision. That is how an adult operates on a board or council.

The devil has a special place in hell for that lady.
She will get front of the line and special privileges in hell when its her time.

She just fears it because she doesn’t understand or doesn’t want to submit. To walk with God, you have to submit. “Faith” isn’t anything she understands in the slightest. I’ve run into these people all during my life. Anything I don’t believe in, I just keep quiet, let it be, because I DON’T care. But she is fighting it to no end which means she has some serious issues she doesn’t want to discuss. Just state you disagree, vote no, and STFU.

Whomever said it above is correct. Our society has pushed God away as much as they can and look at our society now. The phones, social media, influencers, reality TV (Fake/staged), and everyone is a narcissist that thinks the Earth revolves around them. You see it at your job, driving anywhere, shopping anywhere. Yep, when you think you’re God, this is how you act, like a big time insecure bitch. When you pledge allegiance to God, you act accordingly and treat others well. SMH.

quote:

Originally posted by darkest2000:
Separation of state and church....

But that really isn't a thing. The phrase "separation of church and state" is a twisting of the Establishment Clause in the First Amendment. The Establishment Clause was added to prevent the US Government from establishing an official religion and forcing people to practice it, as had occurred in England.

The Founding Fathers obviously never intended to deny honor to God through public prayer, modeling this by opening every government meeting with prayer to God.

They called on God to bless their endeavors, from the decision to break away from England to their decisions in how to form and govern a new country.

We were uniquely formed, not a theocracy, yet the first country to be founded on the belief that our rights come from our Creator, not a king or other authoritarian form of government. And we were founded to be the antithesis of authoritarianism, in all forms: the Founders made it very clear about their belief in God, and their thanks for His favor, but did not allow for a theocratic dictatorship.

We are a nation founded on Judeo-Christian principles, and those principles include "live and let live", but the Founders never hid the fact that belief in God is a keystone to the foundation of the US.


.

^^^^^^^
And ignores the free exercise clause.

Motion carries....

quote:

Originally posted by 400m:
I don’t feel group prayers before the meeting are necessary at all. I would feel uncomfortable sitting around before a public meeting while people gave thanks to a god I don’t recognize. It’s a public forum, not a private one. Religion has no place there.

Her unpleasant tone is another matter altogether but I agree with her position.

So a prayer being spoken in public actually 'triggers' you?
Is it really going to piss on your day?
No one asked you to pray, just take a moment to reflect on being thankful for what is good in your life.

Bless your sensitive heart..

Hmmm.... What examples of government that despise THE CREATOR that truly care about their people?
Let's see....that's right zero. Look how the no longer Great Britain is plunging in to hell and their people are are going to jail, for their thoughts? For those that want that here, GTFO of our country.

quote:

Originally posted by TigerDore:
But that really isn't a thing. The phrase "separation of church and state" is a twisting of the Establishment Clause in the First Amendment.

Exactly, and it seems this false phrase seems to get a lot of mileage, just like "freedom of expression" in regards to the 1st Amendment. But if there was a true separation, then 95% of U.S. Presidents would not have used a Bible for their oath, same with senators, justices and judges, etc.

My question is where did this carpet bagger come from. I.E. New York, New Jersey or California?

quote:

Originally posted by WCCPHD:
...carpet bagger...

TAR AND FEATHERS, BY GOD!!

She's a miserable person and only wants to make others miserable.

I'm an honest apostate and don't give a shit if they want to pray. Doesn't affect me in the slightest bit.

quote:

Originally posted by 1lowlife:

So a prayer being spoken in public actually 'triggers' you?
Is it really going to piss on your day?
No one asked you to pray, just take a moment to reflect on being thankful for what is good in your

Bless your sensitive heart..

Here we go again. Back up 13 posts and read what I said. (Last post on page 1) Then tell me you read the whole thread.

Scratch that, I’ll just quote it again.

“I’m with you, I’m polite enough to lower my head and keep quiet. No sense making a stink about it. I certainly wouldn’t go off like she did. I just don’t think it’s necessary at a public gathering”.

Now which part of my words makes you assume public prayer triggers me? Or that it pisses on my day? That is not rhetorical question.