Finally got back on a regular weight-training regimen two months ago. Just as I was going to throw cardio into the mix, my fitness club started a 21-day body fat loss percentage challenge, with the prize being a 32" Samsung Smart TV. Perfect for the Man Cave That was all the additional motivation I needed.

Dumped all sugar. Swore off all alcoholic beverages. Highly-restricted carb intake. (My loving wife is helping. Made buckwheat biscuits to go with beef stew, the other night, and left potato out of the stew.) Added pre-workout BCAA. (Normally only add BCAA to my workout water.)

And finally added creatine to my supplement stack.

To most effectively use creatine the common recommendation is to go through a "loading phase." The most commonly-recommended regimen is 20 grams/day for 5-7 days. I tried five one day. No problem. Did ten for a couple days. No problem. Bumped it to fifteen/day. No problem. Last two days I jumped it to twenty. No problem. (N.B.: In all cases it was 5g at a time.)

Glad that's done. The creatine I'm using, Bulk Supplements brand, mixes pretty easily, but still it was sometimes a bit of a PITA. Now I'll drop to 5g/day. On days off I'll toss it into my morning orange juice (no sugar added) and on workout days it'll go into my protein shake.

I'm not certain whether it's the creatine, pre-workout BCAA, improving fitness level, or some combination of these, but, while I'm not sure I'm getting more intense workouts, I've never experienced such rapid recovery times as I am now.

For those interested, here are a couple informative articles on how to use creatine, and its benefits:

Clearing Up The Creatine Confusion: Steps For Correct Use!
Creatine: Why Use It? Scientific Support To Back Its Benefits

Kudos on the fitness move but a man-cave sans alcohol (or cigars) is just wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
Kudos on the fitness move but a man-cave sans alcohol (or cigars) is just wrong.

Thank you.

Oh, make no mistake: There will be alcohol and there may even be cigars. The swearing-off of alcohol, the highly-carb-restricted diet, and the pre-workout BCAA are simply to boost my muscle gain and fat loss so as to win the Challenge.

(My goal is a minimum of 3% body fat loss--preferably four, if I can do it.)

The creatine I have not yet decided about. Some say you should use it only in intervals, while others suggest there are benefits to be realized taking it continuously. Need to do more research.

(Jager Bombs are not the way I'd be inclined to try to accomplish my goals .)

As you increase your creatine intake, increase your water intake. Creatine is massively abusive to the kidneys. I have taken care of some incredibly healthy looking specimens (18 years old, multiple workouts a day) in kidney failure/rhabdomyolysis because of supplements.

Are you running any of this past your doctor? Give him specific numbers and intervals.

Luck,

Bruce

I think 3% is doable. How is BF being measured?

I've never really messed with creatine much, I do know your fat loss plan should work! I dropped 7% in 4 months with a similar approach. So, 1.75%/month rate, but I wasn't going all-out for 21 days straight, I tailored my approach to the time available (it was a 4-month challenge, went from 16% to 9%).

Great fitness tip though, enter a challenge! Could be a 5k or obstacle race. A fat loss challenge. It doesn't have to mean anything really, just provide a little external motivation and accountability (not wanting to look dumb to family and others participating).

P.S. I'd recommend ditching the am OJ, it is just concentrated fructose and a bad way to break a fast when your body is primed for fat burning after not eating all night. 8oz OJ has 24g carbs, only 6g shy of what I would be taking in the entire day when I was doing very low carb.

For me, creatine works, but it is no miracle. After you get up to as saturated as your body can UTILIZE there is no further benefit. But I am also a long-time vegetarian, which is one of the categories that creatine supplementation helps most.

Also, it works best in the medium-length high intensity efforts, so it is great for things like repeated hill attacks in bike races where the effort lasts 1-5 minutes. But the data on short-term strength gains or long-term endurance seems spotty and inconclusive. It will also make you retain water, so a lot of the weight gain is just water. That's not necessarily a bad thing, because muscle and all tissues are really mostly water. But it can skew your weight-loss and body fat measurements, depending on what system you are using.

quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:
As you increase your creatine intake, increase your water intake.

Of course. Being well-hydrated is good advice in any event.

quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:
Creatine is massively abusive to the kidneys.

Thanks for the caution, but all of the research I did, which included reports of controlled studies, indicated adverse effect on the kidneys was anecdotal, and there was no evidence to substantiate it.

However increased blood pressure in some users is well-documented. I went back to twice-daily BP measurement to ensure I would not be one of those, as I'm currently on 5mg/day of lisinopril for marginally high BP.

Didn't suffer any gastrointestinal upset or bloating, as some do, either.

quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:
I have taken care of some incredibly healthy looking specimens (18 years old, multiple workouts a day) in kidney failure/rhabdomyolysis because of supplements.

"Because of supplements" I can believe, but which supplement(s)? E.g.: I've watched young guys slam-down heavily-caffeine-loaded pre-workout shakes, which, IMO, is just plain st00pid.

quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:
Are you running any of this past your doctor? Give him specific numbers and intervals.

I've run several things past my current GPs over the years. Their general responses ranged from "Don't know" to "I wouldn't recommend that" to freaking out over the heart rates I hit doing HIIT.

Truth is the average GP doesn't appear to be well-read on sports fitness--and that includes supplementation. So I do my own research, paying careful attention to who's doing the research and reporting. I did that with BCAA, and I did that with creatine. I am satisfied that each, used in moderation, is safe and effective.

quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:
Luck,

Bruce

Thanks!

Look into intermittent fasting, it can be a great tool for fat loss, it extends the golden time where your body is burning its own fat for energy. Not every day, but maybe 3x per week.

It isn't about caloric reduction, you still hit whatever your daily cal and macro targets are, you just do it in a shorter eating window and extend the fasting window from overnight to 16+ hours. You still have plenty of energy.

Depending on when you workout, the timing can help as well. Afternoon workouts? Break the fast with a late lunch which serves as a pre-workout meal. Post-workout nutrition and dinner same as any day, but you probably don't have to worry about portion size at dinner as it is only your 2nd meal for the day.

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:
I think 3% is doable. How is BF being measured?

One of those Omron hand-held electronic devices. Not optimal, I know, but it does seem to be, if not strictly accurate, at least consistent.

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:
I've never really messed with creatine much, I do know your fat loss plan should work!

Thanks! I certainly hope so!

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:
I dropped 7% in 4 months with a similar approach. So, 1.75%/month rate, but I wasn't going all-out for 21 days straight, I tailored my approach to the time available (it was a 4-month challenge, went from 16% to 9%).

Going from 16% to 9% in four months is impressive, IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:
P.S. I'd recommend ditching the am OJ, it is just concentrated fructose and a bad way to break a fast when your body is primed for fat burning after not eating all night. 8oz OJ has 24g carbs, only 6g shy of what I would be taking in the entire day when I was doing very low carb.

I've thought about it. But it's less than 8 oz., it's cut by about 20% with water, and it's 100% OJ with no sugar added.

I may cut it, anyway. What the heck: If I can cut my nightly beer with dinner, I can lose the OJ, too.

ETA: Looked at the carton. You're right, Strambo: That's a lot of sugar carbs, even if it is 100% real fruit juice w/no sugar added. It's out!

quote:

Originally posted by Crom:
For me, creatine works, but it is no miracle. After you get up to as saturated as your body can UTILIZE there is no further benefit.

Yup. That's why I'll drop back to 5g/day, now. My cells should be saturated at this point.

quote:

Originally posted by Crom:
But I am also a long-time vegetarian, which is one of the categories that creatine supplementation helps most.

Indeed.

quote:

Originally posted by Crom:
Also, it works best in the medium-length high intensity efforts, so it is great for things like repeated hill attacks in bike races where the effort lasts 1-5 minutes. But the data on short-term strength gains or long-term endurance seems spotty and inconclusive.

I'm using it mainly to improve short-length, high-intensity endurance (lifting) and for recovery improvement.

quote:

Originally posted by Crom:
It will also make you retain water, so a lot of the weight gain is just water.

That does not seem to have happened to me. I have made certain to remain well-hydrated, but my weight has remained fairly constant and I've suffered zero bloat.

quote:

Originally posted by Crom:
That's not necessarily a bad thing, because muscle and all tissues are really mostly water. But it can skew your weight-loss and body fat measurements, depending on what system you are using.

Yeah... I wondered about that, so I looked up things like "creatine and body fat loss" and the like. Most of what I found indicated that creatine helps in BF loss by helping improve muscle bulk, and more muscle means higher calorie burn rate even at rest.

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:
Look into intermittent fasting, it can be a great tool for fat loss, it extends the golden time where your body is burning its own fat for energy. Not every day, but maybe 3x per week.

Already considered adding that to the mix--doing 16-hour fasts. (Already did it once, in fact.) Was going to do that from last night into this morning, but work up with a mild headache this morning, which experience led me to suspect was nutrition-related. Ate a low-carb protein bar and that Evil Glass Of OJ , and it went away.

Thanks for the feedback and encouragement, everybody

quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:
As you increase your creatine intake, increase your water intake. Creatine is massively abusive to the kidneys. I have taken care of some incredibly healthy looking specimens (18 years old, multiple workouts a day) in kidney failure/rhabdomyolysis because of supplements.

Are you running any of this past your doctor? Give him specific numbers and intervals.

Luck,

Bruce

Yeah but that $300 TV.

Don't mean to be a downer, but my goal has always been good health, not "fitness." There are risks with any supplement. If the risk is worth it to you for a stink' tv, go for it.

quote:

Originally posted by Fredward:
Don't mean to be a downer, but my goal has always been good health, not "fitness." There are risks with any supplement. If the risk is worth it to you for a stink' tv, go for it.

Creatine aside, health and fitness are by no means mutually exclusive. At the extreme end of fitness they diverge, but for the average non-athlete, they very much can (and should) go hand in hand.

ensigmatic,

Have you ever eaten very low carb for a prolonged (as in a few days or more) period of time before? If so, disregard. If not:

When switching to a very low carb/ketogenic diet for the first time, you will experience the "carb flu." Basically, your body would much rather burn carbs for quick energy like the OJ and biscuit (whole grain or not) than have to convert fat for energy which is a major PITA. So, your body is going to fight you on this. You will feel kinda blah, may get headaches, low energy and generally "off." Similar to flu or cold like symptoms.

This only lasts 1-2 weeks max however (for me and my wife, a little over a week). Once your body adapts, the "off" feeling symptoms go away and your energy levels off to a nice steady state, whether you are eating or not (no longer depending on quick carb hits).

The best part; your metabolism is now very flexible. In the absence of carbs, it will go into ketosis and convert fat for energy seamlessly with no drama. In the absence of any food (fasting), it will just burn body fat for energy (after glycogen stores are depleted), no drama. If you do eat carbs for awhile (that your body will still happily burn), then go back to low carb....you won't go through the "carb flu" again.

So, if you haven't gone through this yet, keep track of your macros and keep the carbs under 50g net (total carbs minus fiber) per day until you get through the carb flu stage at least. I would NOT do intermittent fasting while going through this transition.

Good for you for talking to a doctor, even a clueless GP
Try a sports medicine doctor and a nutritionist for better advice.
I have no doubt that creatine will stop you from cannibalising muscle for energy during high intensity training combined with carb elimination. Good thinking, there.
What a nutritionist can do for you is measure exactly how much protein and creatine you need to fuel your body and meet your goals.
"More" is not necessarily better and can be much worse.

Keep us posted!

Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by Fredward:
Don't mean to be a downer, but my goal has always been good health, not "fitness."

They are not mutually exclusive.

quote:

Originally posted by Fredward:
There are risks with any supplement. If the risk is worth it to you for a stink' tv, go for it.

*Tsk* You know what they say about assumptions. I have been using protein powder supplements for probably five years or better. BCAA for at least three. I had already determined to give creatine a try--my decision to finally do so just happened to coincide with the Challenge.

The TV is inconsequential. I can buy one at Costco for $250. Probably less when they go on sale, if I'm patient. It's the winning the Challenge, challenging myself, and getting more fit that's interesting.

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:
ensigmatic,

Have you ever eaten very low carb for a prolonged (as in a few days or more) period of time before? If so, disregard. If not:

No, I have not. I will keep your comments in mind, however.

quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:
Good for you for talking to a doctor, even a clueless GP

Well, my GP's haven't been exactly "clueless," but they've been poorly-versed in sports medicine.

quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:
Try a sports medicine doctor and a nutritionist for better advice.

I would do that if I had any indication that what I'm doing was potentially injurious, but every time I've ever gone for a physical or any other exam I've been proclaimed to be "as healthy as a horse."

quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:
I have no doubt that creatine will stop you from cannibalising muscle for energy during high intensity training combined with carb elimination. Good thinking, there.

Thanks.

(Btw: I expect to gain muscle mass during this Challenge .)

quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:
What a nutritionist can do for you is measure exactly how much protein and creatine you need to fuel your body and meet your goals.

Understood, but that kind of consult certainly wouldn't have been covered under my old health plan and I doubt Medicare will be amenable, either

quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:
"More" is not necessarily better and can be much worse.

No question. What I'm doing is going with commonly recommended intake levels, or less. E.g.: I take far less protein powder than many hard-core workout types do.

I appreciate the counsel.

quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:
Keep us posted!

Bruce

Will do

As promised: Update

Well, that was bullshit

Twenty one days of a low-carb (±50 grams/day on average) diet. Interval fasting one to two times/week. Half-hour of HIIT Monday & Friday. Weight training Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. Didn't miss a single workout in 21 days. Dropped 6-8 pounds. Went from a 36" waist jean to a comfortable 34" jean with some "done lop". Increased both strength (weight training) and cardio intensity/endurance. Gained more prominent muscle definition shoulders-to-calves--particularly the legs and except for abs.

End of the body fat loss challenge was today. Weighed-in. The hand-held Omron Body Fat Analyser they use claimed I had the same body fat percentage as the day I started!

Not. Possible.

So I essentially spent $25 (the sign-up fee) to motivate me to kick my fitness program into high gear. And that's ok. It worked. But I sure would like to know how much body fat I really lost.

Manager at the club estimates about 2%. (He used to work at a weight loss clinic.) I think that's low. Six pounds is 3% of 192 pounds (my starting weight), alone. And that's assuming I only maintained muscle bulk. Being as I was pushing more weight/resistance for more reps/sets than when I started, I'm thinking I gained muscle fiber. Which, if true, would mean more than 3% body fat loss.

I won't be entering any more challenges that depend upon an electronic "impedance" measuring device, that's for damn sure

Thanks for the update. If you lost 2" on your waist you lost body fat, period. The measuring device is full of crap if it says you are the same, not possible. Did you take before and after photos, if only for yourself?

In any case, the weight loss and 2" in 21 days is great work, good job!

quote:

Omron Body Fat Analyser

According to the device website it uses resistance (well, Bioelectric Impedance but oh, well) to estimate body fat. According to the Wikipedia entry on that technology it is not astoundingly accurate for individuals, and some routine things can throw it off as what it does is try to guesstimate the amount of water in your body and back-calculate body fat from that.

quote:

Dehydration is a recognized factor affecting BIA measurements as it causes an increase in the body's electrical resistance, so has been measured to cause a 5 kg underestimation of fat-free mass i.e. an overestimation of body fat.[3]

Body fat measurements are lower when measurements are taken shortly after consumption of a meal, causing a variation between highest and lowest readings of body fat percentage taken throughout the day of up to 4.2% of body fat.[4]

Moderate exercise before BIA measurements lead to an overestimation of fat-free mass and an underestimation of body fat percentage due to reduced impedance.[5] For example, moderate intensity exercise for 90–120 minutes before BIA measurements causes nearly a 12 kg overestimation of fat-free mass, i.e. body fat is significantly underestimated.[6] Therefore, it is recommended not to perform BIA for several hours after moderate or high intensity exercise.[7]

BIA is considered reasonably accurate for measuring groups, or for tracking body composition in an individual over a period of time, but is not considered sufficiently precise for recording of single measurements of individuals. [8]

TL: DR - The reduced waistline doesn't lie - you did well!

Keep up your smug, condescending bullshit, I've seen it before. Do what you do, but your body sends messages. Like, uh "carb flu." I'm sure that has great health benefits. Oh forget it, do what you do. You already know everything, it was in the body builder magazines.