hi all, my safe came with an electronic lock (lagard 3710) which has finally given up the ghost, with the door closed. after researching a bit i found that the keypad is faulty and in need of replacement.

i know that my keypad is plugged into a board via a ribbon wire but the keypad itself is stickied over the screw holes. i dont know if i can pull the sticky keypad up, remove the 2 screws and then the board from the back of the keypad frame and then remove the ribbon wire and install a new keypad, or if there is another way to do this job.

after viewing youtube videos it seems like a job i can easily do given my mechanical and electrical background however i dont know how to open the door without having to jumper wire the new key pad in, if there are any locksmiths or other people that know how to get around this please let me know!

thanks guys

Seems to me that if it was possible to do what you're proposing, it would be very simple for anyone to break into a safe that way.

My locksmith happened to have an identical electronic lock to the one I was replacing. He wired it in with the ribbon wire, and I entered my combo, and the safe opened. From there were replaced the lock with an electronic/manual version.

(32 years in security/safes)

What happens when you enter the code?

I have some old keypads, I'd be happy to send you one. But how do you know the keypad is bad?

quote:

Originally posted by arfmel:
Seems to me that if it was possible to do what you're proposing, it would be very simple for anyone to break into a safe that way.

I think you're misunderstanding the mechanism. The keypad module easily pops off the door of the safe, but the unlocking mechanism itself is behind steel. The ribbon cable is simply how the combination is conveyed to the lock. Even with "raw" access, you'd still need to know the proper sequence to unlock it.

What does the maker say?

Bob

quote:

Originally posted by rbert0005:
What does the maker say?

Bob

I am no expert, but think I am sometimes.

Not to derail the thread, but this is a good example of why one might want to use the separator line feature of the signatures, to keep them visually separate from the content of posts.

quote:

Originally posted by striker1:
(32 years in security/safes)

What happens when you enter the code?

I have some old keypads, I'd be happy to send you one. But how do you know the keypad is bad?

After the 6 digit code it beeps 3 times, after 6 0's it beeps twice. Im pretty sure the keypad is bad baised on everything ive read. My issue is all the video's show replacing the keypad with the door open, and its the newer style 3715 keypad. My keypad is LAg 3710, its an older model that the actual keypad has adhesive on the back and sticks over the screw holes.

To peel up the keypad will mess it up, but its the only way to access the screws to remove the whole thing this one dosent pop off.

So basically to remove it i peel the keypad up, remove the 2 screws then i can remove the circuit board and the ribbon wire, clean the sricky stuff and replace with new sticky keypad in reverse.

I just wanted to hear from someone that has done this to make sure ive got it

quote:

Originally posted by rbert0005:
What does the maker say?

Bob

I'm waiting for an email, baised on earlier dealings with them though I'll have to start a claim withthem, pay a locksmith and then get reimbursed

quote:

Originally posted by sjp:

quote:

Originally posted by striker1:
(32 years in security/safes)

What happens when you enter the code?

I have some old keypads, I'd be happy to send you one. But how do you know the keypad is bad?

After the 6 digit code it beeps 3 times, after 6 0's it beeps twice. Im pretty sure the keypad is bad baised on everything ive read. My issue is all the video's show replacing the keypad with the door open, and its the newer style 3715 keypad. My keypad is LAg 3710, its an older model that the actual keypad has adhesive on the back and sticks over the screw holes.

To peel up the keypad will mess it up, but its the only way to access the screws to remove the whole thing this one dosent pop off.

So basically to remove it i peel the keypad up, remove the 2 screws then i can remove the circuit board and the ribbon wire, clean the sricky stuff and replace with new sticky keypad in reverse.

I just wanted to hear from someone that has done this to make sure ive got it

Three beeps indicates an invalid code. If you enter four consecutive invalid codes, the lock will enter a five minute penalty mode (led blinks once every ten seconds).

So, I would wait until the lock is ready to operate, and very deliberately enter each of the six digits.

If the code is still invalid, you may in fact have a faulty keypad, or at least a faulty key.

The connector (not removable) for that stick-on keypad is at the top of the faceplate. So you could try some dental floss starting at the bottom and see if you can saw/peel the entire keypad off the body.

Although there are a few variations, we use a sacrificial keypad. We take old keypads that we know are still good, and we wire them up to tap into the wiring.

Odds are good that you will damage the old keypad getting it unhooked, and if you're trying to do it with your replacement, odds are good you'll damage it as well. Lagard keypads come from the factory with the cable attached at the keypad. Other manufacturers make theirs where the cable plugs in at both ends.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
Although there are a few variations, we use a sacrificial keypad. We take old keypads that we know are still good, and we wire them up to tap into the wiring.

Yep, that's what I do. I have a couple with soldered-on alligator clips.

quote:

Originally posted by striker1:
The connector (not removable) for that stick-on keypad is at the top of the faceplate. So you could try some dental floss starting at the bottom and see if you can saw/peel the entire keypad off the body.

First, i have tried multiple correct code entries, most punched in slowly i feel comfortable saying the keypad is bad.

Second, are you saying that i can't replace the keypad with a new stick on one after i pull it off? How do i go about replacing the keypad, i figured i could unplug the ribbon wire after i gained access to it and just replace the stick on keypad to the base.

I'm glad your helping me with this, not many people remember or know about the stick on keypad

The 3710 mounts with two horizontal holes, so you're stuck with that style unless you want to drill/tap the standard vertical holes. If you do that you can use the 3750. (You'll need the standard vertical holes in the safe door anyway for almost all other modern locks)

My recollection on the 3710 ribbon cable is that it's soldered to the back of the keypad.

I'm happy to loan you a keypad with the four alligator clips so you can try it.

quote:

Originally posted by striker1:
The 3710 mounts with two horizontal holes, so you're stuck with that style unless you want to drill/tap the standard vertical holes. If you do that you can use the 3750. (You'll need the standard vertical holes in the safe door anyway for almost all other modern locks)

My recollection on the 3710 ribbon cable is that it's soldered to the back of the keypad.

I'm happy to loan you a keypad with the four alligator clips so you can try it.

Luckily i saw a screw hole when i looked in the battery compartment so i think my safe is drilled for both.
I have an email in to get a locksmith out and fix it, it will either be no cost to me or 100% reimbursed so i think it'll be fixed before i would get your keypad in the mail, however i greatly appreciate you offer.
If i had a choice which keypad would be the best to replace this with?

I'd put a mechanical lock on, unless you like the idea of a dual-mode lock.

The 3750 will be a fine replacement if you decide to keep the LaGard.

Keep in mind that the original electronic lock itself, if it's older, should probably be replaced anyway. I do see older LaGards (sometimes 10+ years old), and in a bank safe environment we always suggest that the bank replace those before they fail. Home locks will get less use. Just food for thought.

I like the idea of a combo electronic/ manual lock but I'm going with whats covered right now because i don't have the 200 ish to put a better lock on it.

I will inquire as to getting the internals replaced as well
Thanks!

It seems that most knowledgable folks in these threads prefer the manual locks over electronic.

I've had my Liberty safe for around 10 years and it has the SG Electronic lock.

Any recommendations on a good quality replacement and estimated cost to change one out?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions/information.

The Sargent & Greenleaf 6730 is widely considered to be the industry standard group 2 mechanical combination lock. This lock needs to be installed by a SAVTA or otherwise qualified tech or locksmith in order to insure warranty coverage.