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| Member |
Commodity trader here. I've been interested in the markets since I was 15 years old - today I'm 54. I like to develop trading systems, write indicators & trading algorithms, etc. I'm basically a hobbyist but I have consulted on the development of AI. What advice would I give? First and foremost, trading is 80% psychology. In particular, the ability to follow directions (or a system) is paramount. It's also helpful to remember that it takes 10 years or 10,000 hours to develop a highly refined skill. A million dollar skill in six easy months is probably a stretch, even with a mentor. You may think differently than he does. Studying gambling is not a bad thing. *All* of my money management techniques are taken directly from gambling. Most great traders like to play cards (good conditioning tool). Even Warren Buffet and Bill Gates like to play bridge when they get together. There's a lot to learn from it, especially poker. Most people who teach trading advocate learning to trade at a higher time frame before you take on day trading. You're putting your psychology and your skills under too much pressure, far too soon. Learn to trade monthly, weekly, daily and THEN transition to day trading. Looking back, the people who made a difference to me had the exact, same advice; put your hands on the subject and learn how YOU react to the markets. Build everything yourself from the ground up. It was really good advice. V. | |||
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| 186,000 miles per second. It's the law. |
This is truth. I've been trading since the late 80s and I agree with everything said here. I have spent literally thousands of hours reviewing charts over the years, and every trade is still a challenge. No way can someone take a quick course and proceed to consistently make money. It just will not happen. Especially day trading. You might have a chance with swing trading if you understand the patterns. The late 90s were great for traders. You could see what was up on Level 2, and actually take advantage of it. Those days are long gone and the HFT machines today can not be beat. They will steal your lunch money one penny at a time. They will win. Swing trading and taking advantage of psychology and emotions is the only way to trade today, with any hope of making money over time. You have to be able to recognize oversold and overbought conditions, and take advantage of group psychology and emotions. This is why paper trading does not work. No emotions. Paper trading is like having a gun fight where both sides are shooting blanks and everyone knows it. Far different when real bullets are flying. Lastly I will say again, that we have been in a bull market since the March '09 lows (666 on the S&P) and that is a record run. Trading in a bear market is very hard. Anyone new to investing in the last 10 years has never been though a bear market. They are hard! Break-outs fail most of the time. Momentum evaporates. You have to look for oversold lows to catch the bounces etc. Very hard to trade, even for pros. Be careful and only risk what you can lose. Do not risk your retirement on trading. If you absolutely have to try this, please consider not trading penny stocks or options. Penny stocks do not conform to any chart patterns, and are heavily manipulated, mostly by the mob. Not kidding. The only way to consistently make money with options is to sell them. If you are buying calls, you are the sucker. Once in a while when a stock melts down, you might consider LEAPs. Other than that, stay away from options unless you are selling covered calls or selling puts on a sell-down of a stock you want to own long term. Just my opinion. | |||
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| 186,000 miles per second. It's the law. |
JAllEN was not a trader. He was a classic Graham and Dodd / Buffett investor. A legend evaluating balance sheets etc. He knew next to nothing about trading. He did not know about CANSLIM, for example. Investing is not trading. One might be better off investing vs trading, in my opinion. JALLEN knew his stuff regarding investing. Great Respect for JALLEN. | |||
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Now in Florida |
I was a professional trader for many many years. I believe that retail traders do not stand a chance. honestly, though, your friend isn't going to listen to anyone telling him it's a bad idea . Everyone knows someone who claims to make a ton of money daytrading and they think they can be just like him. Confirmation bias causes them to ignore all the other people who lose. He is going to have to just give it a try and learn for himself. Hopefully he'll figure it out before he loses too much. | |||
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| 186,000 miles per second. It's the law. |
Yep. | |||
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| Member |
It would be great if people walked away from this thread feeling as if they learned something. This is a great forum and I would like to see things go that way. What should a person do who has an interest in the markets (or trading)? I wouldn't day trade at all. It's an expensive scam pushed on novice investors who don't know better. You have to pay for a ton of resources to get set up and then you have to take risks that you're not ready for. Instead, buy a good end-of-day technical analysis program with a database scanner of some kind (to find the items that meet your criteria). Subscribe to an end-of-day data service and start practicing. Total outlay; $800.00 or so. What do you believe in? Is it true? Have you verified that it's true? Take $1,000.00 (or whatever) and test your ideas. Don't waste funds - but kiss this money goodbye. Consider it tuition. I would also recommend that a novice study the commodity markets. A lot of lazy people survive the stock market (for a while) but the commodity markets gets rid of these people very quickly. Traders in these markets are highly skilled and their tools and techniques are worth studying. Read the conservatives (Buffett, Graham), the moderates (O'Neil) and the radicals (Darvas). It sounds like a lot of work and it is. Still, I've had a lot of fun with it and have no regrets. When you look back and wince at all the nasty people you've dated and all the crackpot hobbies you've poured money into, you won't be ashamed of this - if you're patient with yourself and do your homework. ... and so it goes, V. | |||
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quarter MOA visionary |
UPDATE: the "mentor" is apparently making my friend do a month of paper trading on his (aka no pay) own before he puts him on salary then to do more paper trading. He is smitten with his mentor so I guess we just have to ride it out and see how he does.  | |||
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Member |
Probably the most informative and relevant two posts I've read re getting started on trading in today's environment. My hat's off to you for the solid advice. __________________________ NRA Member "The final weapon is the brain, all else is supplemental." John Steinbeck | |||
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chickenshit |
So, let me see if I understand all this. What you guys seem to be saying is, ... There is no free lunch. Did I get that correct? I really enjoy reading this thread and listening to the people who are savvy in general and make a "hobby" of trading. Our forum seems to have a higher than average collection of savvy individuals and that is one of the things that helps contribute to its success. ____________________________ Yes, Para does appreciate humor. | |||
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| Member |
To think that you are going to basically compete against the expert traders on Wall Street that have their own dedicated research departments with huge budgets is not realistic. Great way to lose a lot of money quickly IMHO. | |||
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| Member |
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ It is similar to the ability to hit a Major League fastball. | |||
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His Royal Hiney |
You're not even betting against expert traders when it comes to stocks. You're betting against programs developed by PhDs. I don't buy that the mentor will put your friend on salary especially if it's something you have to learn and develop on your own. If the mentor know how to do it, why doesn't he just teach him. And if he know how to make money as a day trader, why teach anyone? Just double up his bets. "It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946. | |||
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| Member |
Is there new info or is this just a necro troll? | |||
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