quote:

Originally posted by gpbst3:
^^^^

Everything I have been reading says united in the only one playing hardball.

To top it off I just looked up the alternative flight they put us on. Its over $100 less than the original flight. Do you think they are offering the lower rate?

The cost of a flight goes up and down throughout the day. Check it over and over and you'll find that the price changes. The reasons are legion, and complex. The value of a flight is what you're willing to pay at the time you book the flight, not what it costs on a different day. Cost varies with demand and a number of other factors, including connecting flights which are also attached.

Your contract for passage is with whomever you make it; many think the airline owes them if they book with a third party, and that's not true.

If you contract with the airline and purchase a ticket, in many cases it isn't a refundable fair. The ability to cancel and move that fare to a different occasion is a courtesy; the closer you get to departure time before you cancel, the harder it may be to fill that seat with another passenger, and consequently the greater the liklihood of lost revenue on that trip. If the airline rebooks you without cost, it's still an imposition on the airline.

In the case of cancelled flights, these occur for numerous reasons, from weather to various events, and also for mechanical delays. A flight may be canceled for lack of passengers, or lack of support. I was stuck on board for forty five minutes or an hour a week ago, because they couldn't find anyone to operate the jet bridge to get us off. How ridiculous is that?

If the flight was booked as non-refundable and the travel protection wasn't purchased, the airline is doing a courtesy by moving the flight and expanding out to the end of the year. The fare isn't lost. What others are paying at the time of the new flight you book is irrelevant.

If the flight was booked as refundable and booked directly with the airline, then you have a right to a refund; most airlines will always encourage you to use the funds, rather than take them back.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeGLI:
How long ago did you book it?

We booked directly with United Feb 22. and received notification last week they changed our flight for April 21.

Looking to take the trip in Sept. the flight is $500 less than we paid now


How is this not the same thing as a car dealer selling you a blue 4 door car then delivering you a red 2 door. Its still a car right!!!!

If you book a flight a month ahead, the cost will always be lower than if you book it just before.

Right now, flights are dirt cheap. I had a commercial flight yesterday across the country, for fifty bucks.

Nobody changed the color of your car. The flight you wanted wasn't available and was cancelled. Any flight you book can be cancelled. You are not guaranteed passage when you book a ticket.

If the flight is selling for less on the day that you select, that's the way it is. You're looking at the cost of a flight in September. Of course the cost of booking a flight months in advance is less. You could have booked your April 21 flight six months in advance, and would have paid less. I regularly do travel internationally in which the cost of the ticket has gone up several thousand dollars from the time I first looked at the ticket, until when it was purchased. Ticket price is highly variable.

You bought passage, and the passage cancelled. You've rebooked, and what others pay now, or six months from now for that flight, is irrelevant. What they're charging for that flight now is certainly not what they'll be charging two months out, or one, or a week prior...the price will change.

You are entitled to a refund for your canceled flight — even if the airline says you aren’t
Zach Griff
Mar 25, 2020

Airlines are in a bind. Because of the coronavirus outbreak, passengers are scrambling to postpone or cancel upcoming travel. Governments across the world are also adding travel restrictions, and some are even closing borders.

Airlines are responding to this massive reduction in demand by canceling (or significantly rescheduling) flights. With very few new bookings, the cash flow is drying up too. Plus, with all the cancellations, airlines will need to refund passengers for existing reservations.

But airlines are going to great lengths to avoid giving refunds. They recognize that they’d be out a lot of cash, so they’re doing all that they can to convince you to take a voucher or future travel credit instead.


For domestic flights, as well as international ones departing or arriving the U.S., you’re covered by the rules of the Department of Transportation. As it says on the DOT’s website, if your flight is canceled — no matter the reason — you are entitled to a full refund back to your original form of payment for the unused portion of your itinerary.

In addition to the DOT’s guidelines, airline tickets are governed by each carrier’s contract of carriage. You can find the full text for the major airlines here:

American
Delta
Frontier
JetBlue
Spirit
Southwest
United

Interestingly, Canada just updated its passenger bill of rights to reflect that airlines can choose to give future travel vouchers instead of a refund. Fortunately, if your flight departs or arrives in the U.S., you’re still governed by the DOT’s much more generous policy.

If you read each, you’ll find clauses that state that if your flight is canceled, you are entitled to a full refund — in line with the DOT regulations. But just because you’re entitled to a refund doesn’t mean airlines are going out of their way to hand them out.

What should you do if airlines are offering future credit instead of a refund?
In light of all the cancellations, airlines have been enticing passengers to take future travel credit instead of cash refunds.

We’ve heard reports of American Airlines offering passengers 20% extra value on vouchers in lieu of a refund. Aer Lingus is doing something similar, but the bonus is just 10% more value.

Likewise, Etihad is offering up to 5,000 bonus Guest Miles should you decide to take a credit with the airline.

Meanwhile, other carriers that have taken the opposite approach. Instead of incentivizing people to take future credit, they’ve just made it much harder to get refunds.

United’s new schedule change policy — requiring you to wait a full year for a refund — is a perfect example. Swiss has also removed most references to getting a refund for canceled flights from its website.

Qatar also no longer mentions the option of getting a refund should your flight be canceled. But again, even though the airlines are trying to convince you otherwise, you’re still eligible for a refund if your flight is canceled!

Best strategy to get a full refund
The first thing to note is that the process of getting a refund typically isn’t automatic. You’re going to need to physically request one (again, airlines making it hard to get your money back).

Though some carriers have online forms to request a refund, you may need to call in to speak to a representative. In that case, make it clear (politely) that you want a refund and not a travel credit.

If the agent gives you a hard time, you can always hang up and call again (something you’ll often see referred to as “HUCA” in the points & miles world). If you still don’t get the answer you’re looking for, it pays to be patient. Airlines are still updating their policies and procedures. I’d also try using Twitter to reach the airline.

If the airline flat out refuses a refund, your next best course of action is to dispute the charge on your credit card. After all, the carrier is violating the DOT rules, as well as its contract of carriage. While you’re at it, you should also file a complaint with the DOT.

Bottom line
When your flight is canceled, you are entitled to a refund — no questions asked — according to the DOT rules. However, some airlines have been trying their hardest to convince travelers to go with a voucher instead of a refund – despite the rules. The airlines are doing this to maintain as much positive cash flow as possible.

If you’re offered credit for a future trip and would prefer your money back, the best course of action is to call an airline’s customer service desk. Cite the DOT rules and contract of carriage you agreed to when you purchased your ticket. If you’re still out of luck, consider a credit card charge back.

But either way, knowing your rights is the first step in getting what you want.

https://thepointsguy.com/guide...for-canceled-flight/

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:


Nobody changed the color of your car. The flight you wanted wasn't available and was cancelled. Any flight you book can be cancelled. You are not guaranteed passage when you book a ticket.

The flight was available. They advertised it, we selected it and they took our money.

Now your saying you cant have it but we are keeping your money.

I understand it can be cancelled, thats fine, but I should be able to get my money back.

I have a United flight to the UK in May, it's pretty clear at this point that this is not going to happen. Especially leaving out of Newark. I called united to see what my options were and they advised I could reschedule at no charge but not get a refund and oh... the miles I used to pay for the bulk of the fare can be re-used but for a $150 fee! If they cancel the flight, then they waive the fee (but at that point I can also demand a refund so I would go that route). Personally I hung up and intend to call back closer to the depart date, hoping for a cancellation by then. One other thing I have found is that if you make a public stink on social media, the will deal much sooner than if you just call and talk to whomever answers the phone.

quote:

Originally posted by gpbst3:


Now your saying you cant have it but we are keeping your money.

No need to put words in my mouth. I speak very well for myself, thanks.

No I did not say that.

You can get your money back if it's been cancelled. Already explained in adequate detail. I gave you a direct link.

My son had a wedding planned in May in South Korea, (he is marrying a native)
We were to fly into Seattle and then ASIANA Airlines to Inchon, SK
Obviously with all going on, they cancelled plans.
Tried to contact airlines as I”m high risk over 60 and they said can’t do a thing until 10 days before departure date.

Guess this is where our 10 BILLION $ is going for the stimulus package?
Tickets weren’t cheap either.

quote:

Originally posted by LBAR15:
I have a United flight to the UK in May, it's pretty clear at this point that this is not going to happen. Especially leaving out of Newark...

According the the article below, United still has Newark to London flights thru the end of April. May? Who knows...

United
Houston – São Paulo Guarulhos (GRU)
Newark – Frankfurt (FRA), London Heathrow and Tel Aviv (TLV)
San Francisco – Sydney and Tokyo Narita

https://thepointsguy.com/news/...&utm_date=2020-04-01

quote:

Originally posted by sigmoid:
Guess this is where our 10 BILLION $ is going for the stimulus package?

Actually, it was over $50 billion, with $25 billion an outright grant and another $25 in loans.

Some congress critters are asking the airlines to issue cash refunds.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/sen...issue-171606263.html

Maybe a note to your friendly congress critter would help?

https://www.airlineratings.com...ign=latest_headlines

AIRLINES SEEK RELIEF FROM MASSIVE $US35 BILLION TICKET REFUND LIABILITY

By Steve Creedy
April 01, 2020

Airlines globally face a massive $US35 billion liability for ticket refunds that could see them burn through an estimated $US61 billion of cash reserves during the second quarter.

A new analysis by the International Air Transport Association estimates the global airline industry will post a loss of $US39 billion for the quarter ending June 30.

Airlines have been steering passengers away from refunds by offering them travel credits while waiving change fees and, in some of the more generous offers, fare differences.

Whether an airline can avoid paying out refunds depends on passenger rights legislation in the jurisdiction in which they operate. Some require airlines to honor a refund request while others allow them to offer a credit.

Now the International Air transport Association is lobbying for those jurisdictions that do require refunds to relax the rules to allow airlines to offer vouchers instead.

“Airlines need working capital to sustain their businesses through the extreme volatility,’’ IATA director-general Alexandre de Juniac said.

“Canada, Colombia, and the Netherlands are giving a major boost to the sector’s stability by enabling airlines to offer vouchers in place of cash refunds.

“This is a vital time buffer so that the sector can continue to function. In turn, that will help preserve the sector’s ability to deliver the cargo shipments that are vital today and the long-term connectivity that travelers and economies will depend on in the recovery phase,”

The IATA figures show in stark detail why airlines are keen to preserve cash.

The industry group’s analysis is based on severe travel restriction lasting three months that will see second-quarter demand plummet by 71 percent.

The damage equates to a full-year revenue loss of $US252 billion and a 38 percent demand slump.

The analysis reveals second-quarter revenues are expected to fall by 68 percent, slightly below the fall in passenger demand due to continuing but reduced cargo operations.

The decision by many airlines to ground all or most of their fleets combined with the fall in the cost of jet fuel to push down variable costs by 70 percent.

However, IATA noted the impact of the fuel cost falls will be limited to a 31 percent decline because of airline hedging policies.

The bigger problems will be fixed and semi-fixed costs that account for roughly half of an airline’s expenses.

IATA estimates semi-fixed costs such as crew costs will be reduced by about a third as airlines cut where they can without jeopardizing their ability to return to the skies when the situation recovers.

But de Juniac warned airlines could not cut costs fast enough to stay ahead of the impact of this crisis.

“We are looking at a devastating net loss of $39 billion in the second quarter. The impact of that on cash burn will be amplified by a $35 billion liability for potential ticket refunds,” he said.

“Without relief, the industry’s cash position could deteriorate by $61 billion in the second quarter.”

IATA reiterated its call for more governments to follow those that have already given aviation-specific aid packages.

Called United twice now and got the typical runaround. Customer service could do nothing for me and I asked to speak with the refund dept. I was told they are not taking calls. I can fill out a online form and see if they decide to call me back

United hates guitars.

I would go ahead and do the on-line request. You will at least have some form of paper trail. I just went through the entire cancellation/refund ordeal with Travelocity (Japan Airline). My situation is different though. Basically, I filled up an on-line form to cancel my flight. No mention on either refund or voucher. That was a month ago. Then last week, I received a confirmation from Travelocity that our request has been processed and that VOUCHER
has been issued. We were OK with the voucher. Did not call them or email to request full refund. And then TODAY (out of nowhere), I received another email from Travelocity saying they have issued
Or will be issuing a FULL REFUND, back to our cc within the next 30 days. Something must have happened with the airline and travelocity. Good luck with your request.

quote:

Originally posted by gpbst3: I was told they are not taking calls. I can fill out a online form and see if they decide to call me back

From Delta today:

We are extending your flight credits even further
 
We’ve listened, and we know that in these times of rapid change, you want the value of your ticket to be secure and redeemable for a longer period. As a result, we are now extending your eCredit for up to two years.

All applicable eCredits will be automatically extended for travel to be completed through May 31, 2022, so there’s no action needed on your part. Delta is working on a solution to display the new expiration dates on Delta.com, so even if your eCredit for canceled travel has not yet been processed or extended, rest assured that your flight value is secure. If you are ready to book your new trip now and don’t yet see your eCredit or have an issue booking via delta.com, please have your old ticket number ready when you call our Reservations team. 
 
Your eCredit can be applied toward a new flight, and in some instances a fare difference will apply. If the new fare is lower, you’ll retain the balance on your eCredit. If the new fare is higher, the difference will be collected. 
 
Have questions or need more information?
 
Please visit our Coronavirus Travel Updates page or Need Help page.
 
Thank you for your continued support.

This situation remains fluid, and, like you, we’re continuing to learn more as we go. Please know that we are committing the utmost care and attention into crafting our travel waiver policies. It’s why we’ll continue to evaluate them as the environment changes for you, our employees and our business. Thank you for your continued support as we work through this challenge. Above all, your care and safety is our top priority.

*************************************************

I'm happy to see this. I have no less than 15 separate flights booked or canceled from now until September. I'll hopefully still be able to keep most of those schedules, but the sad fact is I'll likely have to cancel many. Knowing that I have until 2022 now to use all those credits means that there is now no doubt I'll be able to use them all. That's a relief. I may even book some more.

DOT to airlines: Refunds are not optional for canceled flights

The Department of Transportation issued a stark message to airlines that serve the U.S. Friday, reminding carriers that they must provide cash refunds to travelers whose flights are canceled by the airline.

Even the title of the missive was weighty. In its “enforcement notice,” the DOT said “carriers have a longstanding obligation to provide a prompt refund to a ticketed passenger when the carrier cancels the passenger’s flight or makes a significant change in the flight schedule and the passenger chooses not to accept the alternative offered by the carrier.”

Demand for air travel has plummeted as a result of the coronavirus pandemic, and airlines around the world have been strapped for cash as they try to maintain their payrolls and meet other operating expenses even as revenue dries up. As a result, many carriers have tried to hold onto cash by issuing vouchers for future travel — instead of refunds — when they have canceled flights.

That shift has drawn an increasing number of complaints from consumers. Underscoring the growing attention on the issue, a group of U.S. senators weighed in on the subject this week in open letters to airlines executives that implored them to change those policies.

Now, the DOT is making it clear that even the extraordinary circumstances created by the COIVD-19 pandemic are no excuse for airlines to flout the law and that their doing so has not gone unnoticed.

“The obligation of airlines to provide refunds, including the ticket price and any optional fee charged for services a passenger is unable to use, does not cease when the flight disruptions are outside of the carrier’s control (e.g., a result of government restrictions),” the department said in a statement. “The Aviation Enforcement Office will monitor airlines’ refund policies and practices and take enforcement action as necessary.”

The DOT did recognize, however, that during these unusual times, airlines may struggle to comply immediately. In its memo, the agency suggested that there would be some leeway in enforcement to give carriers time to get in line, though it did not specify exactly how much slack airlines might get.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/...or-canceled-flights/

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/03...s-refunds/index.html

FUCK YOU UNITED!!!!!


(CNN)Federal officials on Friday ordered airlines to reimburse customers for canceled flights, saying a growing number of passengers are complaining amid the coronavirus pandemic that airlines are providing travel credits rather than refunds.

The US Department of Transportation did not say how many claims it has substantiated, but it did direct carriers in an enforcement notice "that passengers should be refunded promptly when their scheduled flights are cancelled or significantly delayed."......

That explains why we suddenly received an email telling us that they are refunding the full amount we paid for 3 roundtrip international flights, as well as the amount we paid for Travel Insurance. The email said it may take 30 days to receive the refund back to our cc. This is much better than the initial travel voucher they issued that is valid through December 2020 (exactly 1 year from when we purchased the tickets), and NOT 1 Year from the original departure date (April 5, 2020).

To the OP, I hope you get your refund.

Though I will probably have no problem maintaining my Platinum status through next year, this is a welcome decision by Delta. It will certainly help keep loyal Delta flyers with Delta through this mess and beyond.

Delta has usually treated me very well so I was anticipating this bold move by Delta.

Delta becomes the first U.S. airline to extend elite status

 Victoria M. Walker

Here at TPG, one of the questions readers have posed to us most during the coronavirus pandemic is what airlines and hotels plan to do about elite status. We’ve seen some big moves from hotel chains, but today, Delta Air Lines announced what it calls an “industry-leading move” regarding elite status, Sky Club membership, Delta co-branded card perks and more.

Stay up-to-date on the outbreak by visiting our hub page for coronavirus coverage and signing up for our daily newsletter.

On April 5, Delta became the first U.S. airline to announce that it would extend elite status for all members amid the coronavirus pandemic. There are a lot of details to walk through, so here’s what you need to know.

Elite status

The airline says all Delta Medallion status for 2020 will be automatically extended for the 2021 Medallion year. Additionally, all Medallion Qualification Miles (MQMs) from 2020 will be rolled over to 2021 to qualify for 2022 Medallion Status.

That means all MQMs earned — either through flying or through co-branded credit cards — will count toward 2022 elite status, a Delta official confirmed. Note that Medallion members based in the U.S. will still need to earn MQDs even if they have the required MQMs.

Delta says the extended Medallion Status will be automatically added to SkyMiles accounts on February 1, 2021, with no need to call on your end.

Co-branded credit card perks

Delta is extending some of the perks attained through its co-branded credit cards, which can make your on the ground and inflight experience much smoother. Here’s what you need to know.

Members who hold the Delta SkyMiles® Gold American Express Card who have earned a $100 Delta flight credit will get a six-month extension beyond their current expiration date. Cardmembers who spend $10,000 in a calendar year are eligible for the credit.Delta SkyMiles® Platinum American Express Card and Delta SkyMiles® Reserve American Express Card members with Companion Certificates with an original expiration date between March 1 and June 30, 2020, can use them to book and fly by December 31, 2020. Certificates that expire between July 1, 2020, and April 1, 2021, will receive an additional six months after the current expiration date.Delta SkyMiles® Reserve American Express Card members will also get a six-month extension to use their Delta Sky Club one-time guest passes beyond their current expiration date.Sky Club memberships

Delta also announced that Sky Club memberships with an expiration of March 1, 2020, or later will receive six additional months of Delta Sky Club access. The airline previously announced that it would close the majority of its Sky Clubs until demand recovers.

SkyMiles Select

If you bought Delta’s $59 travel benefits program, SkyMiles Select, you will receive a six-month extension to the Priority Boarding benefit and any unused drink vouchers. The program gives members Main Cabin 1 boarding, eight drink vouchers (worth up to $9 each) and what the airline’s calling a “limited-edition bag tag.” Note that if you hadn’t already bought into the program, it’s too late as Delta stopped selling SkyMiles Select earlier this month.

Medallion status challenges

One of the most popular ways to earn airline status is through status challenges or promotions. Typically, that means you complete a number of elite-qualifying miles, and sometimes elite-qualifying dollars, in a given time frame in order to achieve a specific elite tier. Delta allows you to enjoy temporary status during the challenge period.

If you missed out on getting or keeping status because of travel restrictions, Delta says SkyMiles members currently enrolled in a challenge or promotion, like Status Match Challenge, Reclaim My Status, or promotions offered through your employer, can start a new promotion when ready to start traveling again.

Any temporary complimentary status that a SkyMiles member currently has will remain valid until the current promotion or challenge period ends.

Will other airlines follow suit?

Already we’ve seen some programs like Qantas and Hilton announce sweeping changes. And last week, the World of Hyatt loyalty program announced that it would extend all elite status and expiration of rewards.

However, this is the first status extension announcement we’ve seen from an airline in the U.S. United Airlines, American Airlines, Alaska Airlines, JetBlue and Southwest Airlines have not publicly said what they will do about elite status extensions, making Delta an industry leader during the coronavirus pandemic.

Related: Complete guide to airline elite status during the coronavirus outbreak

“While our focus is on keeping customers and employees safe and healthy today and always, you are a part of the Delta family and we know how important these benefits are to you,” said Sandeep Dube, Delta’s Senior Vice President of Customer Engagement and Loyalty.

“That’s why as coronavirus continues to dramatically impact travel across the globe, you don’t have to worry about your benefits – they’ll be extended so you can enjoy them when you are ready to travel again.”

https://thepointsguy.com/news/...extend-elite-status/