quote:

I think the good guys are more likely to win converts than the bad guys. You hear about the lifelong satanist who finds Christ. You hear about the lifelong abortion advocate who becomes a staunch anti-abortion activist. It's possible, and I don't think it happens the other way around with nearly the same frequency.

It's possible to have a civil discussion. Chances are, in the end, you will agree to disagree.
But I say good for you in putting forth the effort.

Agree that a debate with the left is fruitless.

That being said, I think there are a number of decent debates with Shapiro, Kirk, et al. Including examples based on potential sentience. But the points will be lost on the left - irrational and emotional and deaf ears.

If a "pro-abort" is asking honestly and desiring to examine beliefs which challenge their position, because they want to understand the strong opposition to theirs, then one may be able to have productive and meaningful dialogue. Otherwise, might as well push water uphill

quote:

Originally posted by KSGM:
Is the abortion debate inseparable from Abrahamic religion? Is there such a thing as an an anti-abortion advocate that is not a believer in something for our soul outside of life in the material world? Is there such a thing as an anti-abortion atheist?

I ask because I have identified this as a sticking point in my conversations with my relative.

Filthy atheist checking in. Yes, there are anti-abortion atheists. At least one, anyway.
The argument I usually use is to ask the pro-abort to define, quantify, and measure personhood. If they can't do that, then they have no logical grounds to deny the personhood of a fetus*, and if they persist in denying it, they have no logical grounds to assert their own.

*also, fetus is just Latin for "offspring", and an immature human offspring is a baby

That is, more or less, why Rome describes life as starting at the moment of conception - it is when the unique combination of DNA is formed, and is the only definite moment of new existence.

SCOTUS, more or less, has come down with “when the child can reasonably survive outside of the mother, with medical intervention, and deliberately meant their position to account for improving medical techniques and equipment.”

SCOTUS’ position, will, eventually, become complicated.

I doubt many of us would appreciate being "informed" by an anti-gunner bent on changing our minds. You either accept that they disagree or break off contact. No point in arguing.

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I doubt many of us would appreciate being "informed"

I welcome those engagements. More often than not, I think the anti-gunner (or other adversary) leaves the conversation frustrated that we aren't as irrational and hateable as they think. It likely gets their wheels turning; even if only a little.

I have had these discussions more times than I care to recount. With VERY few exceptions, pro-abortionists cannot and will not use reason in their arguments. They simply do not value life of unborn human children in any normal, meaningful way. There is something broken in them that always seems to strengthen when confronted with the very simple fact that the moment cells begin to divide after the combination of egg and sperm, life has begun. Beyond sharpening your own cognitive skills in debate, you will for the most part gain nothing from discussions with brains infected with evil.

Late to the discussion, but, I've talked till I'm blue in the face with these idiots. Not just about abortion. Open borders. Vending machine narcotics. The LBQTZ scam.

Pretty much everything lunatic liberals espouse. I don't waste time on them anymore. They aren't worth the effort. It's like rasslin' with a pig. You just get muddy and the pig likes it.

Yup. Others may have different experiences, but I find little point in arguing with leftards on anything. Occasionally I will gently point out the obvious contradictions in my lefty brother’s positions, but that is about as far as it is worth taking it.

You really can't 'logic' this to make somebody see the light. This isn't about facts, stats, or really even truth.

This is a spiritual matter.

In Old Testament times, Caananites (and others) would sacrifice children into the fire in the name of molech. This is an old god (lower case 'g'), and he is very much alive and well today.

This is the same spirit behind abortion. I find it not surprising at all that the dems had mobile abortion clinics set up at their convention. They were LITERALLY inviting the presence of this spirit into their assembly. They openly side with the side of death and evil, all the while claiming it is the "Super Ultra Extreme MAGA Crowd" (TM) that are the literal nazis.

Good luck if you can 'reason' with a few of the less-indoctrinated ones, but I don't really expect most pro-abortion people will ever be swayed by truth, logic, or personal anecdotes. . .

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This is a spiritual matter.

Though I largely agree, Infidel has provided an exceptional example in the fourth comment on this page. It is nice to know that spirituality is not a prerequisite to an anti-abortion attitude.

I do, however, find it more likely that an atheist might find religion and then adopt an anti-abortion stance, rather than merely abandon their pro-choice attitude without spiritual influence.

I’ve watched a couple of this woman’s videos and she’s very good.


One thing that I always say is if a pregnant woman gets murdered why is it a double murder if the baby isn’t a life like these wackos think.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=...F0ZXMgYWJvcnRpb24%3D

Whew. That stuff is hard to watch; very awkward. Lots of weird pseudo-aggressive attitude from the abortion advocates, but a lack of confidence.

Well, then I watched another clip from the same event. The aggressor was very confident, but didn't make sense much of the time, and was shouting and interrupting a lot. I am glad these events exist, as I think the conversation needs to be had. And I commend that host, for remaining calm and collected.

These young people have some extreme opinions about extreme things. I really don't know how they could, in their early twenties. I suppose they don't realize that their opinions potentially aren't truly theirs yet, and that the possibility that the opinion may change exists.

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The aggressor was very confident, but didn't make sense much of the time, and was shouting and interrupting a lot. I am glad these events exist, as I think the conversation needs to be had. And I commend that host, for remaining calm and collected.

Right. Leave the shouting to the pro-aborts.

quote:

Originally posted by 1s1k:

One thing that I always say is if a pregnant woman gets murdered why is it a double murder if the baby isn’t a life like these wackos think.

This scenario happens more often than you might think. Here's a woman who murdered her newborn and was prosecuted for it. Why? Abortion Monster MDs do it all the time.

https://www.fox26houston.com/n...l-gas-station-toilet

Yes, I've had this discussion with friends, though it has been years, the last time maybe 6 or 7 years ago. Did I change their minds? No, but with a couple of them, I did give them some food for thought to chew. Some of my points with them other than some of the points in this thread:

It is a LIE that the pro-life people who oppose abortions are anti-women, this is something dreamt up by leftists/Democrats to put forth the false narrative of the "War on Women", the same people who came up with "white supremacy", "common sense gun laws", etc. The very simple argument against this bullshit is that millions of women are pro-life and against abortion of any kind, my wife is one of them. I have not met one single person, who is pro life, that want to restrict women rights; they very simply want the right to life to apply to the fetus inside the womb of a woman. The pro-abortion people always dance away from the fact that a being with a completely different DNA makeup is inside a pregnant woman, and not something akin to a tumor.

quote:

Originally posted by Infidel:
The argument I usually use is to ask the pro-abort to define, quantify, and measure personhood.

And the argument from pro-abortion people that the fetus is just a "clump of cells" is a dodge to escape the fact that the fetus is a human being; age and location do not dictate whether or so. Yes, philosophical and "scientific" arguments can go on for days, but U.S. law and many state laws have determined that the fetus killed in a homicidal act is a victim, such in the case of a pregnant woman that is murdered. And why do many women insist on therapy and psychological care after a mere removal of a "clump of cells"? Because they deep down KNOW that the clump of cells is an actual human?

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Originally posted by oddball:
just a "clump of cells"

That one's easy. Tell them that they are also just a clump of cells, roughly 30 trillion in their clump, and they all have the same degree of moral value.

Pro-abortion people are psychotic, but reality says sometimes it really is the best bad option. As long as we maintain it's still a bad option I think we'll work it out as a species.

quote:

Originally posted by FenderBender:
... but reality says sometimes it really is the best bad option.

Murdering a baby is never...ever...the best option. It is never any option.