quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
Seems a tad more complicated than that.

The "fixed station clause is "complicated", to say the least, an issue that is still a point of confusion for all involved in GMRS.

A “fixed” station is supposedly a permanent installed station that communicates solely with another permanently installed “fixed” station. Fixed stations never communication with base, mobile, or HT stations which are normally used to communicate with other like stations. But nobody uses "fixed" stations, they use mobiles, base stations, repeaters, and HTs. Some think the "fixed" definition is akin to two tin cans with a string between them, something that may have existed decades ago, but no longer.

As I read it, amplifying your handheld to 20 watts is illegal on the "interstitial" channels. As far as the main channels, it doesn't appear to say specifically for handhelds. Since it does not specify handhelds, but it does specify other means, I would say that that is verboten there as well.

Admittedly, I know next to nothing regarding GMRS or its allowable frequencies. Just going by what is written. I could be wrong but you might want to check it out further.

The power restrictions also help to prevent GMRS users from stepping all over each other when transmitting. The interstitial (read Inbetween) channels would have excessive bleed over at higher power levels.

Whew..


eCFR Title 47, Chapter I, Subchapter D, 95.303: Definitions

"Fixed station. A station at a fixed location that directly communicates with other fixed stations only."

A “fixed” station is a permanently installed station that communicates solely with another permanently installed “fixed” station. Fixed stations never communication with base, mobile, or HT stations which are normally used to communicate with other like stations. Then you may ask, what is heck is left? Well, in effect one can think of them almost like radio links that are used to communicate between two repeater towers, perhaps for control purposes, or perhaps for point-to-point repeater linking using highly directional antennas (imagine complementary aimed microwave dishes). I suspect there may be another scenario or two where it would be applicable also.

https://forums.mygmrs.com/topi...-is-a-fixed-station/

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
As I read it, amplifying your handheld to 20 watts is illegal on the "interstitial" channels. As far as the main channels, it doesn't appear to say specifically for handhelds. Since it does not specify handhelds, but it does specify other means, I would say that that is verboten there as well.

Admittedly, I know next to nothing regarding GMRS or its allowable frequencies. Just going by what is written. I could be wrong but you might want to check it out further.

Yes, I believe you're correct. This is why mobile Gmrs machines can't tx on channels 8-14.

I avoid tx on those (incl 1-7) since I can get 15 Watts but a 1.92 swr (467). 1-7 (5 w hand held) and 15-30 (up to 50 w) is where gmrs lives as far as I can tell.

https://hotarc.org/files/gmrs-...GMRS_&_FRS-2013.html

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Why these limits on GMRS? Is it that UHF isn't effective for long-distance transmissions because the radio waves do not skip off of the ionosphere?

Or is it more a matter of avoiding overloading GMRS radios receiving transmitted signals?

As I understand it, GMRS is designed to be dead simple to allow people with little to no training and their families to use it without causing interference.

Ham operators are given a lot more freedom in equipment and power, but they're expected to know the rules and actively avoid operating in a manner that will cause interference for anyone else.

FRS, MURS, and GMRS have a much lower bar to entry, but the equipment is locked down so you can't transmit out of the allocated frequency range. It's also limited on power to avoid opportunities for interference, and prevent injury because transmitting at higher power levels can cause serious injury to yourself or someone else if you don't take the proper precautions.

Putting it into firearm terms, GMRS is a bb gun, ham is a Barret .50 rifle. Operated irresponsibly, the bb gun won't do much harm. The Barret on the other hand has a whole lot more potential to cause harm.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Why these limits on GMRS? Is it that UHF isn't effective for long-distance transmissions because the radio waves do not skip off of the ionosphere?

Or is it more a matter of avoiding overloading GMRS radios receiving transmitted signals?

The GMRS channels limited 1/2 watt and 5 watts (1-14) are shared with FRS. The GMRS limits seem to be to allow FRS radios room to work.

Imagine 10 pairs of FRS radios being used on the same channel within a 10 mile radius. Because they are limited to crappy antennas and a 1/2 watt on those channels, none of the pairs are interrupted by any of the other pair’s transmissions. Now, throw in a pair of 50 watt radios with good antennas on the same channel, and all the FRS radio communications are interrupted whenever the 50 watt radios are transmitting.

GMRS and FRS share channels 15-22, but GMRS gets 50 watts with 25kHz wide channels and FRS 2 watts 12.5kHz wide channels. These are also the channels GMRS repeaters transmit on.

I think the 50 watt GMRS limit is a safety thing. Even the HAM techs get 1,500 watts, but they had to pass a test that covered RF safety. In theory, they known enough not to microwave the neighbor’s popcorn.

I'm obviously not an expert. I aspire to be novice someday.

But the gist I get from the ARRL license manual, it's mostly about keeping it effective for short distance use - the primary advocacy for these unlicensed / family frequencies. Too much power may allow for the frequency to get too crowded unnecessarily.

This keeps the GMRS freq with less users within some range X instead of unnecessarily allowing users range Y away to also crowd the channel.

It allows more people to enjoy the freq w/o too much crowd based interference. My analogy would be more like having multiple Chik-Fil-A's. You put one in an area and it serves a bunch of people - crowded at lunch time. You put several in a region and the crowd distributes across the locations. CFA is the freq - same freq used in different areas and no crowd interference between areas w/ people talking over each other because of distance / power limitations.

ETA: trying to say what trapper said.

quote:

Originally posted by oddball:
Applied for my GMRS license thru the FCC website today. Used our P.O. Box as the address. I don't know about those who experienced it already, but that website is not very intuitive, I needed online help from a youtube video and 3r party guideline. It ain't like buying something from Amazon. But I guess it is a typical government website.

This seems like a good idea. Dumb question: for PO Box (USPS or UPS Store) - do I need to provide my real home address? Or can it be anonymous?

^perhaps more realistic, a bunch of gmrs/hybrid handsets would probably cover up anyone on an frs at .5 Watts or 2 Watts. They could hear repeater traffic (helpful) but could not respond through the repeater. I hear gmrs HTs reach the repeater sometimes with good results. It all depends on location and its antenna unlike frs with its non-detachable antenna and power limitations.

The FCC did away with hybrid radios in 2017. It's a shame because Uniden and Cobra both had Marine VHF/GMRS dual band HTs that would have cut the number of HTs I have in half. The current GMRS/FRS rules are decent though. With FRS, you don't need a license and the radios are fairly capable. They cover our wooded 20 acres in Michigan. If you need more, you get the no-test GMRS license that covers the whole family. Our $30 Radioddity GM-30s get us 1-2 miles in the same area through the woods and 4 miles+ down beach.

This year, I'm thinking an antenna on the roof and maybe the Midland repeater.

Food for thought: this thread has discussed parts 90 and 95 accepted radios for HAM and GMRS. Other than the Midland and it's Retevis sibling, there's no such thing as a part 95 accepted GMRS repeater. They're all HAM repeaters set to use GMRS frequencies.

quote:

Unfortunately, 467 mhz gives me a 1.86-1.92 swr (462 is 1.00-1.02) so the antenna isn't perfectly tuned

I don't think that a higher swr in the 467 Mhz range is much of a problem, as that is the range that you'll be receiving back from repeaters (your radio is not transmitting those freqs). There are also some low-power frs channels in that area, that you also won't be transmitting from your antenna.

Your 462 Mhz swrs in the 1.00-1.02 range is right where you want to be. Congratulations.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:

This seems like a good idea. Dumb question: for PO Box (USPS or UPS Store) - do I need to provide my real home address? Or can it be anonymous?

Applying for a USPS PO Box, you need to give them your address. But it will not be seen on the FCC site connected to your call sign, which is public information.

quote:

Originally posted by Some Shot:

quote:

Unfortunately, 467 mhz gives me a 1.86-1.92 swr (462 is 1.00-1.02) so the antenna isn't perfectly tuned

I don't think that a higher swr in the 467 Mhz range is much of a problem, as that is the range that you'll be receiving back from repeaters (your radio is not transmitting those freqs). There are also some low-power frs channels in that area, that you also won't be transmitting from your antenna.

Your 462 Mhz swrs in the 1.00-1.02 range is right where you want to be. Congratulations.

On the repeater channels, the repeater listens at 467.600 for example, and the repeater transmits on 462.600 (what I listen to). When I press the PTT, there is an automatic +5 Mhz offset so I am transmitting on 467.600. The increased swr is within acceptable limits but it's not exactly 50 ohms at 467. Over 2 or 3 would be more reason for concern. I'm reasonably satisfied.

quote:

Originally posted by oddball:
I already determined that a Harbor Freight telescoping flagpole/mast setup is going to be used, <<sni>>

That's what I'm going to get... eventually. The price is a bit prohibitive at this moment, but hopefully next month I can get one.

Took and passed my Technician test yesterday. Now just waiting on the FCC for the email to pay the license fee.

quote:

Originally posted by SigSentry:
<<snip>> I also don't see young American men and women in factories pumping out this tech any time soon. <<snip>>

While I don't want to get into arguments over slave and child labor in some countries, the $15.00+ per hour minimum labor here doesn't help anything at all, and the constantly rising cost of living keeps minimum wage rates rising!

Stop

Yes sir...

In other news, the Nagoya 771G that I ordered came in Sunday, so I started another antenna experiment. I put it on one radio, and the other radio still had the ABBREE 771. Set them side-by-side in scan mode to see how they compared.

So far the jury is still out, but the Nagoya seems to ignore crappy signals better, and what does come in is clearer. Will continue comparison for a few days to see as their isn't much activity around here at 5 in the morning...

Edit to add: Another antenna battle... The Nagoya 771G won the battle (just barely) against the ABBREE 771 in the battle mentioned above, so I decided to start another antenna war. This time it's the Nagoya 771G facing off against the Nagoya UT72G, with the radio wearing the 771G sitting on the steel cookie sheet beside the magnetic base whip to make them equal in elevation and ground plane. At least this time they're both GMRS antenna so tuned to the same range. It's pretty close in performance between the two, but the UT72G whip is winning by a slim margin... I think. Some times the 771G picks up a transmission that the UT72G doesn't, and a few minutes later it's the opposite. Only about half the time do they both grab the exact same transmission, which I find odd! The radios and their programming is identical, so not sure what the difference is.

Antenna battle update: After several hours now with some increased radio traffic, the results are rather surprising. The 771G is outperforming the UT72G base-mount by a fair margin! I'll now move the magnetic base mount to the car and leave it there, and stick to the Nagoya 15.3" for all other use.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: bronicabill,

Sometimes if two radios are close by each other they can negatively influence each other’s abilities to TX and RX