quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
If electrical service is out for months, look for a large part of the population of PR to relocate up to the CONUS.

Yup.

Can the Navy use the electrial generation power of ships to provide shore power? Meaning if they had a port to pull into could they tie into an electrical grid?

quote:

Originally posted by mbinky:

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
If electrical service is out for months, look for a large part of the population of PR to relocate up to the CONUS.

Yup.

Can the Navy use the electrial generation power of ships to provide shore power? Meaning if they had a port to pull into could they tie into an electrical grid?

There are actually such things as "Powerships" that can supply power to cities that have unstable or unreliable power systems. The problem though in PR is the infrastructure is likely the biggest problem right now. Sure, the ships can sit at the pier and supply power, but getting that power distributed throughout the island where needed is the issue.



And I'll add that yes, a ship can back feed power to an electrical grid by way of the shore power connection, but there are issues that must be considered here. Most times Shore power connections and cables from a ship are not capable of supplying the full power output possible from the ship's generating capacity. Amperage is the limiting factor here, and I doubt that any Shore connections available in PR can handle the full power output that a typical ship can supply.

But likely there are solutions around this. Just takes some bit of electrical engineering.

quote:

Originally posted by mbinky:

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
If electrical service is out for months, look for a large part of the population of PR to relocate up to the CONUS.

Yup.

Can the Navy use the electrial generation power of ships to provide shore power? Meaning if they had a port to pull into could they tie into an electrical grid?

I believe that is correct. The Navy has a record of providing this service going back decades. I read about U.S. carriers doing this back as far as the 1920's.

Wow. Thanks. Purpose built powerships never even crossed my mind. Very interesting.

Like you noted the infrastructure would dictate the success but with a little know how I bet they could get some power up and running.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by mbinky:

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
If electrical service is out for months, look for a large part of the population of PR to relocate up to the CONUS.

Yup.

Can the Navy use the electrial generation power of ships to provide shore power? Meaning if they had a port to pull into could they tie into an electrical grid?

There are actually such things as "Powerships" that can supply power to cities that have unstable or unreliable power systems. The problem though in PR is the infrastructure is likely the biggest problem right now. Sure, the ships can sit at the pier and supply power, but getting that power distributed throughout the island where needed is the issue.



And I'll add that yes, a ship can back feed power to an electrical grid by way of the shore power connection, but there are issues that must be considered here. Most times Shore power connections and cables from a ship are not capable of supplying the full power output possible from the ship's generating capacity. Amperage is the limiting factor here, and I doubt that any Shore connections available in PR can handle the full power output that a typical ship can supply.

But likely there are solutions around this. Just takes some bit of electrical engineering.

That and about the only port a ship could pull into is San Juan although that is the heart of the country.....major airport, hotels, tourism.

pictures and video of the Lake Guajataca dam failure

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new...-Rico-dam-fails.html

Officials said 1,360 of the island's 1,600 cellphone towers had been downed, and 85 per cent of above-ground and underground phone and internet cables were knocked out.

The hurricane was expected to tally $45billion in damage and lost economic activity across the Caribbean, with at least $30billion of that in Puerto Rico, said Chuck Watson, a disaster modeler at Enki Research in Savannah, Georgia.

All the generation in the world is useless without fuel to run it . I'm no Navy ship guy so I don't know if the Reactors can supply shore power as well as power for the ship or do they use Diesel generators for that ? Anyone ?

Those power plant ships are cool.

quote:

Originally posted by selogic:
All the generation in the world is useless without fuel to run it . I'm no Navy ship guy so I don't know if the Reactors can supply shore power as well as power for the ship or do they use Diesel generators for that ? Anyone ?

Navy vessels can, and have done so for decades of humanitarian service, supply shore power with no decrease in their ability to keep themselves self-sufficient.

http://www.navyhistory.org/201...manitarian-services/

Ok , so from reading the article it appears that the shore power would be provided by generators unrelated to the nuclear reactor , and limited to many factors such as voltage and frequency compatibility and the physical connections themselves . Cable size , and the number of .

quote:

Originally posted by selogic:
Ok , so from reading the article it appears that the shore power would be provided by generators unrelated to the nuclear reactor , and limited to many factors such as voltage and frequency compatibility and the physical connections themselves . Cable size , and the number of .

The reactor supplies the power to the generators that feed the shore grid.

I thought the article said that they used Diesel and gas turbine units . So the reactor supplies main propulsion units AND auxiliary power ? So that would make them steam turbines ?

quote:

Originally posted by selogic:
I thought the article said that they used Diesel and gas turbine units . So the reactor supplies main propulsion units AND auxiliary power ? So that would make them steam turbines ?

A nuclear power plant is a steam-powered power plant in effect. The nuclear power is simply the fuel used to create steam. The steam provides the power that turns the turbines.

quote:

Originally posted by selogic:
I thought the article said that they used Diesel and gas turbine units . So the reactor supplies main propulsion units AND auxiliary power ? So that would make them steam turbines ?

You need to note the types of ships being referenced in the article. None of them are nuclear so their power generation systems will be oil-fired boilers, gas turbine, diesel, etc., etc. It doesn't matter what the power generation source is - nuclear or non-nuclear - because power is power. It only matters how to make that power usable for its intended purpose (voltage, ac/dc, etc.), for which the Navy is eminently qualified and has had much practice.

I posted the link to the article more as a historical reference (note the date when the carrier Lexington supplied power to Tacoma, WA.) than a how-to about ship-to-shore power.

A somewhat different perspective here. Interesting read below:


El Coquí, the one-inch musical tree frog that is Puerto Rico’s cultural icon, has more common sense than the island’s public officials. When rising temperatures made the coast inhabitable and caused the extinction of many of their species, the survivors moved up to the mountains, where it was cooler.

Meanwhile, nearly 70 percent of the island’s human population and all of its power plants are still on Puerto Rico’s coast.

This raises two questions. Why didn’t island officials, like Gov. Ricardo Rosselló and San Juan Mayor Carmen Yulín Cruz Soto, prepare for a disaster they knew was coming? And how did Puerto Rico spend several hundred million dollars in US taxpayer-funded FEMA grants?

The end of the tree frog’s nightly concert was just the first sign of looming catastrophe.

When I visited the island in 2013 after a decade’s absence, the first thing I noticed was the virtual disappearance of the wide beaches for which Puerto Rico was once famous. According to the US Geological Survey, they were washing away at a rate of 3.3 feet per year.

Then in 2013 came a more prosaic warning in the form of a report from the Puerto Rican Climate Change Council and the USGS. It stated: “It is no longer a question of whether the coasts of Puerto Rico and many port cities in the Caribbean will be inundated, but rather, it is a question of when and by how much.”

But history itself should’ve served as warning enough. Between 1956 and 1996, there were 12 disaster declarations from hurricanes and flooding in Puerto Rico. Over the last 20 years there have been 15. FEMA has provided nearly a billion dollars in disaster relief to Puerto Rico since 1998.

By now, you’d think Puerto Rico would be prepared. Instead, Mayor Cruz told The Washington Post, “People are starting to tell us ‘I don’t have my medication. I don’t have my insulin. I don’t have my blood pressure medication. I don’t have food. I don’t have drinking water.’ ”

Puerto Rico’s El Vocero newspaper published a similar quote following Hurricane Hugo in 1989. There was “a lack of and delay in obtaining essential services and resources: for example, sanitary facilities, beds, food, water, prescription drugs, and health services . . . San Juan metropolitan area suffered from a lack of water for nine days.”

Old newspaper reports are not the only sources for what Puerto Rico could expect when a major hurricane hit. Government agencies publish post-incident reports following every hurricane. Many of them are available online.

We know some Puerto Rican officials must have reviewed at least some of them. They would have used the information provided in these reports to win $300 million from FEMA’s hazard-mitigation program.

But instead of relocating families whose homes were damaged by Hurricane Georges in 1999, two-thirds of the funding went to rebuilding their homes in the same location.
Cruz ended her interview with The Washington Post, “Don’t forget us.”

We won’t — for long, anyway. The cycle rolls on: Puerto Rico gets hit by a major hurricane. The island is devastated. There is flooding. The power grid gets knocked out for weeks, if not months. The federal government sends billions of dollars for clean-up and repairs.

Then the next hurricane hits and the cycle starts all over again.

In between hurricanes, public officials never get around to relocating the population or power plants inland, away from the disappearing coast.

This is lunacy.

The federal government has already spent billions in this century shoring up and rebuilding coastal communities. We already knew Puerto Rico has no capacity for managing its finances. Now we also know Puerto Rico has no capacity for planning and protecting its citizens — who are also American citizens.

It’s time officials followed the coquí’s example, learned from Puerto Rico’s history and help residents continue to live on this island as the waters rise around them.

The answer isn’t to simply write another blank check — which local profiteers are drooling to get their hands on. If the priority is to get the power grid up and running again, that’s a job for the Army Corps of Engineers, not for the power company that sited all its power plants on the coast.

More broadly, the United States must develop a real climate-change coastal plan. It can start testing solutions in Puerto Rico.


LINK:http://nypost.com/2017/09/27/puerto-rico-should-have-been-ready-for-maria/

quote:

Originally posted by marksman41:

quote:

Originally posted by mbinky:

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
If electrical service is out for months, look for a large part of the population of PR to relocate up to the CONUS.

Yup.

Can the Navy use the electrial generation power of ships to provide shore power? Meaning if they had a port to pull into could they tie into an electrical grid?

I believe that is correct. The Navy has a record of providing this service going back decades. I read about U.S. carriers doing this back as far as the 1920's.

During the 1989 Earthquake in San Francisco, the USS Peleliu and a couple of destroyers were in port or, sailed up from San Diego...can't recall, but they were there. The Peleliu I know for sure was moved next to the power plant in Dogpatch neighborhood and was able to provide power and clean water for a week, while serving as a temporary shelter for the locals.

https://www.aol.com/article/ne...-has-power/23320945/

One hundred days after Hurricane Maria touched down on Puerto Rico, power is back on for 55 percent of the island.

Army Corps estimates full power won't be restored until May.

The problem isn't entirely with power generation, which is at 70 percent of its pre-hurricane capacity. Some homes are still too damaged to receive that power.

I'm not the least bit surprised about how slow things have moved in Puerto Rico.

When I left the island it was not unusual, more like the norm, that you would spend a whole day to fix a problem. Be it with the power authority, DMV, water service, pick and choose which governmental agency.

The same problem you could fix here in Florida---with a five(5) minute phone call.

Perhaps the US should consider giving Puerto Rico back to Spain.

OLE!

Utilities are being asked to send equipment, crews and support staff.
They are being asked to pay their entire costs, including the cost of getting their personnel and equipment to PR, and be paid later. Much later.
I’m not sure the rush to help isn’t being limited by dealing with a government which is financially suspect.