I agree, this would be a monster project with a massive tool buy/shop setup needed. I have a co-worker who does this for a hobby. He has a sweet restored Chevelle and he did a 70's truck. Total rebuild from the ground up on the truck, after he got it assembled (and before paint), he sold it to someone in Europe for like a $7,500 profit. I jokingly asked how much that worked out per hr...he just laughed.

quote:

Originally posted by TXJIM:
All great feedback, thanks. I do not enjoy such work per se, I have not done much of it. My plan for the vehicle is to gift it to my oldest son who turns 16 in two years. He will drive it back and forth to school, less than 10 miles each way. I would plan to buy him something new, modern, etc...when he leaves for college and keep the truck as a toy or let my youngest son drive it to high school.

The thought of restoring one would be a project to work on together. The more I think through it, with the feedback here, I think finding something that is 80%-90% there and doing the little tweaks it needs as projects may be more realistic.

My dad bought me an engine and helped me rebuild it. I got to buy a car to put it in. The engine was a chevy 327. The car was a 74 Datsun 240z, metallic brown. That was a fun project and I really enjoyed it. It was in no way, shape, or form a restoration; it was meatball surgery. My neighbor growing up used to do frame off restorations of 60s camaros. He spent YEARS on each car. I really think your idea of doing a 90% car is good. Maybe even do a 100% car and just swap an engine...

quote:

Originally posted by rsbolo:

quote:

Originally posted by TXJIM:
All great feedback, thanks. I do not enjoy such work per se, I have not done much of it. My plan for the vehicle is to gift it to my oldest son who turns 16 in two years. He will drive it back and forth to school, less than 10 miles each way. I would plan to buy him something new, modern, etc...when he leaves for college and keep the truck as a toy or let my youngest son drive it to high school.

The thought of restoring one would be a project to work on together. The more I think through it, with the feedback here, I think finding something that is 80%-90% there and doing the little tweaks it needs as projects may be more realistic.

My dad bought me an engine and helped me rebuild it. I got to buy a car to put it in. The engine was a chevy 327. The car was a 74 Datsun 240z, metallic brown. That was a fun project and I really enjoyed it. It was in no way, shape, or form a restoration; it was meatball surgery. My neighbor growing up used to do frame off restorations of 60s camaros. He spent YEARS on each car. I really think your idea of doing a 90% car is good. Maybe even do a 100% car and just swap an engine...

You think my son would be upset if I had him swap a V6 into it until he graduates then have him swap the 350 back in?

IMO you are being pretty optimistic. The last half ton square body was built in 1987 so you are looking for a cherry 31 year old at minimum truck. Possible, so are Unicorns too.

Tools, how much do you have? A hundred dollar Craftsman set is not going to go very far, start thinking at least a grand. Floor jack, HEAVY DUTY jack stands, impact wrench, compressor, respirator, good lighting. All necessary.

What about space to do it in? Sure, you can do it outside, in a carport or a one car garage. Gets tight. Two car garage dedicated to the build makes it a lot easier.

Now about the trucks. Basic body shared from 1973 to 1987. GM classed those trucks when they first came out in 1973 as C Series (2wd) and K Series (4wd) until 1987 when they changed the chassis designation to R Series (2wd) and V Series (4wd). Confused yet? Hell us car dealership rats were at the time too! Why didn't the all wise and knowing at GM designate the 88 and later ones with R & V models? To add to the confusion in 1988 while all the half tons were the C-K series trucks they built both the old (previous C-K-R-V) and the new C-K trucks. So beware of this if it comes up in parts shopping.

Now, basic 4wd truck is pretty common, straight front axle, 8.5/8.875" rear axle. 1981 is where things also take a turn. First year for CCC (Computerized Command Control) and the infamous 700R4 transmission. Most all those have been fixed over the years, the first four model years of that transmission were nightmares for us in dealerships with all the upgrades and field fixes. About 83 they came out with another system ESC (Electronic Spark Control), best thing to do with both those systems is to eliminate both if your state does not have emission testing.

Getting back to the 700R4, detent cable aka kickdown cable adjustment is critical to transmission life. Adjust it wrong, it will shift like garbage and probably not live as long. Also if you do eliminate the computer system you will have to hook up a pressure switch to engage the lockup converter or that will be problematic. Most performance transmission vendors and GM Performance Parts make a kit to do that. Better off to swap a TH400 in it along with a 205 transfer case, more on that.

1981 also introduced the 208 transfer case with automatic front hubs. GM made a retrofit kit to change the hubs to manual lock. The nylon sleeve used to fail usually due to mud and crud in the hubs. The 208's were chain driven, hard usage they would stretch and take out the cases along with other components. When I was out west as a parts manager the parts to swap the transfer cases was a popular item.

Rust, rocker panels, cab corners, bed sides. Body damage, take a refrigerator magnet to see how thick the filler is. Not so much a question of if there is any filler but how much filler is in the body. Figure cab rubber mounts are all going to be replaced.

Late 80's the speedometer was electronically controlled, IIRC 1987 so if you do remove the computer system you will also have to change the speedometer back to a mechanical one.

Going to the frame, check the area in front that the steering gear bolts to the frame. Not real common but in the ranch trucks I used to see out west it was not unknown for the frame to crack in the area of the gear and or to be welded and repaired there. While on the subject of the frame, make sure that the VIN on the cab matches the VIN stamped on the frame. Cab and or frame swaps are not uncommon but I would want the numbers to match in case of a interaction with a LEO or for insurance payoff in a loss. A few years ago I had a friend that bought a half ton truck. He didn't know anything about it when I asked him who put three quarter (8 lug) axles under it. Turns out the cab was from a half ton mounted to a three quarter ton frame......two different VINS.At least the title and cab matched.

Last, you might have thrown a curve into the whole thing. Better check into insurance. Most of the collector car insurers limit the driving that can be done and in some cases how you drive with stipulations that the vehicle cannot be unattended, do daily driving and possible no drivers under a certain age. Having 20-30k in a vehicle that cannot be insured for collision or loss is pretty risky at least in my eyes.

And if you do go with a crate engine, stay away from the 350/290hp GM Performance Engine, GM does not recommend that for use in anything over 6000 GVW and especially stay away from the one that some places sell as a 260hp. That is the same engine as the 290, same c.r., same heads but with a wimpier camshaft. That was my business for a number of years, selling GM Performance Parts.

Also forgot, 1987 was the first year the carburetor was replaced by fuel injection, the throttle body injection system. Not a bad system just be aware if you look at one.

quote:

Originally posted by shovelhead:Getting back to the 700R4, detent cable aka kickdown cable adjustment is critical to transmission life. Adjust it wrong, it will shift like garbage and probably not live as long.

Yep. My dad's had that problem within a few months. It would get stuck in first gear until about 45mph and then SLAM into second.

1982 M/Y, GM had a full blown recall on the 700's. Complete transmission replacements on new and customer vehicles.The amount of TSB's on those through 1985 was stunning together with the upgraded parts that were being brought out. By 1986 the problems were pretty much a thing of the past.

Save the hassle and buy one of the restored trucks at a Mecum or Barrett-Jackson auction.

Some good info Shovelhead, thanks. I am primarily looking for a 1984 to 1987 with a strong lean toward the 87 if original drivetrain is intact. I have pretty much dismissed the idea of a total restoration in favor of an 85% plus truck with the plan to do a few tweaks as needed to get what I want. I do have a 3 car garage so space to do some projects is available.

As for insurance, if I can get into one under $20,000 I plan to just roll with liability rather than mess with stated value or classic car insurance with a teen driver. I figure if I went out and got him a new ride the insurance and depreciation on it would quickly equal a total loss on the target truck. If he wrecks it there is a big yellow bus that stops in front of the house every school day

As a novice who used to restore cars for a hobby, buy one already restored.

I finally got to where I hated going out to my garage.

It seemed like I spent every non-work hour , working on restorations. The UPS truck was here every day.

You can spend from now to eternity on one vehicle.

If you want to.

quote:

Originally posted by cruz lee:

 https://inventory.vanguardmoto...silverado-4x4-pickup 

I have a friend/ex-coworker that works here. In fact he and I were as I jokingly called ourselves "The Car Carneys", we were on the road 2011-2013 selling GM Performance Parts at car shows from Michigan to Florida.

He speaks very highly of the quality of their cars and I have been there and have been very impressed too. In fact he has been trying to talk me into going to work there with him. I'd love to except that I'm really enjoying my semi retired life now.

quote:

As for insurance, if I can get into one under $20,000 I plan to just roll with liability rather than mess with stated value or classic car insurance with a teen driver. I figure if I went out and got him a new ride the insurance and depreciation on it would quickly equal a total loss on the target truck. If he wrecks it there is a big yellow bus that stops in front of the house every school day Big Grin

I would highly reconsider this. The difference between liability and full coverage likely would not be much difference. There are so many things that could happen anymore unless the thing is worth $500 or dropping 20k cash isn’t even a blip on your radar it is worth it.
Make the boy pay the difference between liability and the full coverage.

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:

quote:

As for insurance, if I can get into one under $20,000 I plan to just roll with liability rather than mess with stated value or classic car insurance with a teen driver. I figure if I went out and got him a new ride the insurance and depreciation on it would quickly equal a total loss on the target truck. If he wrecks it there is a big yellow bus that stops in front of the house every school day Big Grin

I would highly reconsider this. The difference between liability and full coverage likely would not be much difference. There are so many things that could happen anymore unless the thing is worth $500 or dropping 20k cash isn’t even a blip on your radar it is worth it.
Make the boy pay the difference between liability and the full coverage.

Have you looked at insurance for a 16 year old boy? Do I want to take a $20,000 loss, hell no. Would it mean financial ruin, no. Blue book on one of these trucks is going to be $5,000 plus or minus. This means stated value or classic car insurance with the associated cost and restrictions. The flip side is going out and buying a new or lightly used vehicle with a loan and associated insurance requirements. When you figure in interest, depreciation and insurance over 3 or 4 years on this option it will be well into 5 figures down the drain without wrecking the car. Not much of a gamble when you put it on paper.

The others here who've done the work are right. And not to insult you and your son, but you're going to pour all that money into an old truck making it like new and then handing it off to a teenager? I know what I and my few friends in high school and later in college or the military did to the cars and motorcycles we got ahold of. Wasn't pretty.
But I do understand that the old truck you described is calling to you. I'll suggest you look (out west?) where they don't salt the heck out of their roads and find a not-so-rusted roller needing a motor, tranny and suspension/brake work. And for the love of Pete get the boy involved. He'll appreciate it much more if he invests some sweat, blood and skin in it. It'll be good for both of you; he'll learn a bit about taking care of a vehicle, and develop a bit of hands-on skill. You'll have the truck of your memories and have some confidence in it. Win-win!

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
You'll spend quite a bit on getting the right tools.

For a frame off restoration quesion, I'd say that's the understatement of the year haha. Sigmonkey is right on the money. I have all the resources to do this kind of thing really "cheap" (mechanics to do the work, friends with body shops, the tools, the equipment, etc) and I'd still rather buy one done... I've had two "project cars", neither ran, both were sold at a substantial loss

This message has been edited. Last edited by: cmr076,

I've got my own stalled project in the garage that I need to get back into next year. We did a frame swap putting a 78 GM big car frame under a 55 Buick with a 455 cid Buick engine. Big job, we cut and extended the frame in the center, reformed the front frame horns and from above the rear axle built a new rear section and cut and modified the floor pan. Mounted a aftermarket tilt steering column,changed the brake pedal from frame mounted to firewall mounted, built all new brake lines and rebuilt all of the front and rear suspension. Still have to wire it, mount a radiator, align the front end, mount seats and seat belts and build an exhaust system.

Then comes the fun of body and paint work.

quote:

Originally posted by TXJIM:

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:

quote:

As for insurance, if I can get into one under $20,000 I plan to just roll with liability rather than mess with stated value or classic car insurance with a teen driver. I figure if I went out and got him a new ride the insurance and depreciation on it would quickly equal a total loss on the target truck. If he wrecks it there is a big yellow bus that stops in front of the house every school day Big Grin

I would highly reconsider this. The difference between liability and full coverage likely would not be much difference. There are so many things that could happen anymore unless the thing is worth $500 or dropping 20k cash isn’t even a blip on your radar it is worth it.
Make the boy pay the difference between liability and the full coverage.

Have you looked at insurance for a 16 year old boy? Do I want to take a $20,000 loss, hell no. Would it mean financial ruin, no. Blue book on one of these trucks is going to be $5,000 plus or minus. This means stated value or classic car insurance with the associated cost and restrictions. The flip side is going out and buying a new or lightly used vehicle with a loan and associated insurance requirements. When you figure in interest, depreciation and insurance over 3 or 4 years on this option it will be well into 5 figures down the drain without wrecking the car. Not much of a gamble when you put it on paper.

Keep the truck and insurance in your name.
What happens if he gets hit by an unlicensed/uninsured driver and has to go to th hospital??
That 20k can quickly become 100k plus.
Say he has his little lady friend right beside him on the good old bench seat. Those numbers just get bigger.
I am jaded I know but I have worked so many injury collisions over the years you would not catch me without full coverage on almost anything.

I carried just liability for a month or so when I replaced my Explorer and had not sold it yet. I was too afraid to drive it.

This is my '64 Skylark before I rolled it into the garage last November (2016)





Pulled the engine and transmission and started pulling everything else...






Few weeks later...





And found, you NEVER feed them at night or get them wet... (like Gremlins)





The is almost 100%. I am looking to fire it up this weekend.
All that is left is windshield, exhaust and putting the hood on. All of those after I have the engine, transmission and rear end broken in, as it is easier to tweak things when you can access them.

Did a complete replacement of the entire drive-train, all wiring, complete new suspension, disc brakes, fuel tanks, fuel lines, brake lines rebuilt window and door mechanics refurbished dash, went from auto to 4 speed and some other things.


So, took a year.

The 1968 is next.

We've done a 1945 Willys/Ford GPW and a 1978 CJ7. These were easy as there is no trim, door panels, carpet, headliners, plastic dashboards, etc. Everything bolts or screws off and on. Parts were readily available. Simple electrical. On the CJ, we replaced the entire body (tub, fenders, hood, grill, windshield frame) with aftermarket fiberglass pieces. The work was done nights and weekends and each took less than a year.

If parts are readily available, you have the space, time, and a good vehicle to start with; I believe your time frame is reasonable. I have no clue about your budget. If your a person that sees every project through to completion, you don't get board easily, you have the time and money; then why not? It is work, but it beats watching TV.

This thread has been very helpful for me as an inoculation against such dreams.
I've not got that many years left where I can do something--hell with my back I doubt I could even get under a car and back up again.