Not saying I'd go with one for sure but I would look very seriously at a mini split system.

If conventional talk at length to the builder and HVAC contractor about how the ductwork will be sized, where the outlets and returns will be, and what kind is to be used. I prefer galvanized with all joints sealed, absolutely no flex stuff. Down the road equipment can be always changed but once ductwork is installed it's generally there to stay that way.

Ductwork in our old house was a cobbled up mess. In my newer one I used a Trane variable speed heat pump, duct system laid out with sizes stepping down, and the metal ductwork was completely covered by spray foam insulation.

BTW I strongly suggest you consider having a central vac installed because of all the benefits they offer and it's easy to do in new construction.

Rule of thumb used to be 1/2 ton per 600 square feet of space, not sure if that still applies.

Also consider a package unit. All the working parts are outside of the house which cuts down on the noise inside. Most of the internal parts are made by the same few companies. Higher end units have higher gauge metal and therefore rattle less.

quote:

Originally posted by B92F:
Rule of thumb used to be 1/2 ton per 600 square feet of space, not sure if that still applies.

Also consider a package unit. All the working parts are outside of the house which cuts down on the noise inside. Most of the internal parts are made by the same few companies. Higher end units have higher gauge metal and therefore rattle less.

I believe that is one ton per 600 SQ from my research but other factors come into play too such as where one lives, insulation, sealing, windows, exposure to sun, ceiling heights, etc.

Wow what a bunch of nonsense in these comments.

First as a licensed Class A Contractor with 35 years of experience in several states I would reccomend a good sit down with your contractor if you have one and go over all aspects of the home that are of interest to you.
If you have the opportunity to interview several builders please do so. Check license, BBB and references.
Those people who are complaining here have obviously NOT done their due dillegence. I just can't understand why someone would spend several hundred thousand dollars with someone without vetting them first. The old adage "you get what you pay for..." is often times true in construction as well.

Now on to the OP's questions. I will agree with Excam Man. The HVAC contractor needs to do the Manual J calculations and if the house is well insulated (the cheapest upgrade that you can do) you will find that along with a few other things like quality windows this will result in being able to use a smaller unit(s) and have better indoor air quality and your unit will last longer if you properly maintain it.

I don't understand the comment about running three phase service to your house....First of all the service size run to your house is usually determined by the utility company. It may not even be run in your subdivision and is usually reserved for larger commercial projects. Most of our homes are considerably larger than what the OP is contemplating and we usually run 400 amp service and occasionally 600 amp service and we have never had the utility company run three phase service to any home...
If you have any specific questions about building please feel free to reach out to me.

chances are you won't have a programmable or wireless thermostat either, so be prepared to upgrade that.

Stay away from Lennox. They still use copper evap coils even though it is known the copper coils corrode and develop leaks. They settled a lawsuit regarding same and still haven't learned.

You can do ductless with cassettes in the ceiling as well, or a combination of hi walls and cassettes
They will be more efficient than any ducted system, but 2500sqft will likely require 2 multi head systems
The next step up is VRF, basically mini splits that can heat and cool simultaneously in each zone with one outdoor unit,
Very efficient, but about 10-12k for just the equipment
When you start figuring in payback over the life of the equipment, standard ducted system will be hard to beat

As far as 3phase, I’ll defer to the electricians here, but the cost of the service will probably be prohibitive

Can you even get 3 phase in a residential building? I've seen it in a few garages not attached to the residence. What does code say about that?

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:
The downside?

Expensive equipment compared to a ducted system (so there goes the labor savings).
Complex systems, so harder to find a competent tech for repairs.
More time consuming for service and maintenance.

They're great for retrofits, but I sure wouldn't recommend them for new home construction.

I've done new, and remodel, and my experience runs counter to yours.

When did you start installing and servicing HVAC equipment?

I've been doing new and renovation construction projects for years, dealing with typical ducted systems, high velocity, and mini-splits. Do I personally install and service it? No. I run the projects and deal with the subs, the clients, and any problems that arise. This includes warranty.

For some strange reason, mini splits have performed well for us. We also deal with air exchange systems necessary due to superinsulation.

Perhaps our experiences differ, but I'm not talking out of my ass about this. Having dealt with such a wide variety of projects, I'm not opposed to a ducted system, should they fit a given project better.

In fact, I recently finished a project where half of ~3200sqft was mini-splits, and the rest was a ducted unit.

With the recent code improvements of the last few years, focusing on duct sealing and insulation, the primary issues beyond the space required have been reduced for ducted systems. I'd still give mini-splits the edge overall, save that people don't mind seeing vents, but a big "head" isn't attractive.

If mini-splits weren't doing the job, and were pissing clients off with maintenance or by not performing along with the solar, we'd have stopped using them. Since they have been introduced, the quality and efficiency has only been improving.

Some of these responses just crack me up, Lots of hate for contractors also.


Were all a bunch of thieves waiting to rip you off.


3 phase power for residential. obviously you know nothing about how it works and what it's designed for. Nothing in a residential home will need to be hooked up to three phase power and no you cannot get it in a residential area.


Don't go into having a house built with the thought that all contractors and subs are trying to rip you off, and certainly don't go between the contractor and sub and ask him to do something that the contractor isn't aware of. 1. you will probably get the guy fired and 2 your warranty for that part of the project will be voided by the contractor.


lot's of miss guided info in this thread.

Thanks for all the great input.

Being this will be a "Tract" home, I don't know how much input we truly will or can have.

We fly back again the first week of August to potentially finalize the deal. At that time we meet with the "Construction" and "Design" teams. About 2 hours with each, seems really quick. But maybe others aren't so particular?

We had been putting a lot of thought into what we want in this house. This will be our retirement home. For years very time one of these types of topics come up here, I make notes of do's and dont's and add it to our list.

We have well over 100 items on the list of wants, needs and questions for the builders. If we only have that short of a meeting time, I don't know how much real input or choices of things we'll get. We don't want to have to settle and are prepared to walk if the deal is not right for us.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: TomV,

Any builder worth a damn in that area will have an expert HVAC guy with plenty of experience.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:
The downside?

Expensive equipment compared to a ducted system (so there goes the labor savings).
Complex systems, so harder to find a competent tech for repairs.
More time consuming for service and maintenance.

They're great for retrofits, but I sure wouldn't recommend them for new home construction.

I've done new, and remodel, and my experience runs counter to yours.

When did you start installing and servicing HVAC equipment?

I've been doing new and renovation construction projects for years, dealing with typical ducted systems, high velocity, and mini-splits. Do I personally install and service it? No. I run the projects and deal with the subs, the clients, and any problems that arise. This includes warranty.

Our opinions vary because you deal with the people installing and servicing the equipment.
I am the guy installing and servicing said equipment.

Most salesmen will have a different opinion than the tech doing the service on said product.
Salesmen are knowledgeable in selling, techs know the products.

quote:

Originally posted by Blume9mm:
Duct work is old school, very inefficient and even if installed properly gets dirty and nasty over time.

Mini splits are better.

In 19 years of running HVAC systems in almost 4 million square feet of commercial office space I've seen exactly two instances where ductwork was 'cleaned' for a tenant. In both cases it was done to alleviate fears. In both cases the ducts were clean to begin with.

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:

Our opinions vary because you deal with the people installing and servicing the equipment.
I am the guy installing and servicing said equipment.

Most salesmen will have a different opinion than the tech doing the service on said product.
Salesmen are knowledgeable in selling, techs know the products.

I'm not a salesman. I'm in the attics and basements working closely with the installers, due to the insulation needs. I understand how the equipment works.

quote:

Originally posted by TomV:
Thanks for all the great input.

Being this will be a "Tract" home, I don't know how much input we truly will or can have.

We fly back again the first week of August to potentially finalize the deal. At that time we meet with the "Construction" and "Design" teams. About 2 hours with each, seems really quick. But maybe others aren't so particular?

We had been putting a lot of thought into what we want in this house. This will be our retirement home. For years very time one of these types of topics come up here, I make notes of do's and dont's and add it to our list.

We have well over 100 items on the list of wants, needs and questions for the builders. If we only have that short of a meeting time, I don't know how much real input or choices of things we'll get. We don't want to have to settle and are prepared to walk if the deal is not right for us.

May I suggest that you see if you can get more than 2 hours with the construction team..I would suggest 4 hours. Also, if you can send the your list ahead of time that will give them the opportunity to go over it and potentially cut down on the time spent. 100 items is a lot..

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:

Our opinions vary because you deal with the people installing and servicing the equipment.
I am the guy installing and servicing said equipment.

Most salesmen will have a different opinion than the tech doing the service on said product.
Salesmen are knowledgeable in selling, techs know the products.

I'm not a salesman. I'm in the attics and basements working closely with the installers, due to the insulation needs. I understand how the equipment works.

A contractor who provides a service using other sub-contractors IS a salesman.

You know how equipment works as well as any other person not directly in the business.
If it's so easy and you know how they work, might as well do it and profit from the installations.

Ones that can do, the others talk about it.

And most posters here are the victims. We really don't care what the contractors think, we want a good install that works well. Contractors fight to keep their game going. They don't want the pesky home buyers involved. The less involvement, the easier to continue their game of cheating folks. The last thing they want is a new job coming along where the guy spending the money gets any kind of say what he wants. The message here is clear. Shut up and let us do our job the way we want. What you want will just cost more time and effort. As long as this continues, the customers will continue thinking they're all cooks.

Its the basis of my thinking, and the next time (if there is one)I will be more involved. I don't trust the contractors to just do things their way and trust all will turn well. With just a few changes, the buyer will get a home he wants to live in forever. Then as the buyer visits others and sees better ideas or workmanship, he starts to want to move.

If the contractor doesn't want to give the buyer what he wants, the buy usually can't fire the bum. He's got to live with how that contractor lets things turn out. Soon they'll get in the position of car salesmen, where they don't understand why buyers hate them. And with no one to blame except themselves.

While fun to throw gas on this dumpster fire of a thread, if the OP is indeed buying a track or spec house, he will be getting whatever the builder has already put in or has been putting in. If you order the special, you do not get substitutions.

Congrats on the move. I too escaped and love here in Texas.

We have a 2650 sq ft single story house with high ceilings throughout, (8' high doors) custom built for the previous owner and it has two AC units; a 2.5 ton Lennox for the 3 bedrooms and a 3 ton unit for the rest of the house. Other than replacing the evaporation coil in the 3 ton (thank god for home warranty!), this setup has worked great so far this summer.

Sounds like you have a production house instead of a custom one. Brand new yes, but you may have little choice in the major components of the build. I guess you'll find out in the interview sessions...