I need internet and wifi in my new shop/barn. Also need to plan for possible future POE security cameras.

I have a this wifi router now in the house.

TP-Link AX6000 WiFi 6 Router(Archer AX6000) -802.11ax Wireless 8-Stream Gaming Router, 2.5G WAN, 8 Gigabit LAN Ports, MU-MIMO, 1.8GHz Quad-Core CPU

I also have this switch in use to hard wire most of my AV equipment TVs etc..
TP-Link 16 Port Gigabit Switch | Easy Smart Managed | Plug & Play | Sturdy Metal w/ Shielded Ports | Support QoS, Vlan, IGMP and LAG (TL-SG116E)

I get weak but useable wifi signal out at the pool… opposite side of the back yard from the barn… and it's open air. I got sporadic wifi signal at the barn location before but nothing inside the all metal clad barn.

While the power line ditch from the house to the barn is still open I need suggestions for a solution… assuming an ethernet run in the power line ditch wouldn’t be an interference problem. Separate conduits of course…

I was assuming ethernet cable run. Distance is 110 feet between buildings, and about 40-50 more to the router or switch in the house.

I have about 900 feet of solid copper cat 6 cable on hand from some previous work but it isn’t outdoor or direct bury. I also have enough 1/2 inch pvc conduit to make the run and could run a couple runs of the cat 6 in it The ends of the conduit would have to be sealed air tight to prevent moisture / water condensing in it but I could also just buy the correct cable. Need a recommended source / brand etc.

Instead of asking a bunch of dumb questions perhaps some networking gurus could explain as simple as possible what I need to do.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: cparktd,

Running (unshielded) ethernet next to power (parallel) is a no-no for "signal/noise" issues. And running shielded you still should have 8 inches or more separation.

Additionally is ground loop issues with shielded cable.

I would run media converters on each end and fiber in the span between the buildings and be done with it.

Properly run fiber, with small demarc box on each end, terminated with the media converter (fiber to ethernet) then you are golden, and "future proof" for quite a long time.


(I have done this in many applications from home, office, apartment, hotel, civil engineering plants, etc.) It is relatively low cost, one time, and occasionally replacing a failed media converter.

I’m sure Sigmonkey is giving you the best option - may even be the cheapest.

We used WiFi bridges around the farm. No other practical way to do some of our runs.

Between the houses and the office, though, we may do as SigMonkey suggests.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
Running (unshielded) ethernet next to power (parallel) is a no-no for "signal/noise" issues. And running shielded you still should have 8 inches or more separation.

Additionally is ground loop issues with shielded cable.

I would run media converters on each end and fiber in the span between the buildings and be done with it.

Properly run fiber, with small demarc box on each end, terminated with the media converter (fiber to ethernet) then you are golden, and "future proof" for quite a long time.


(I have done this in many applications from home, office, apartment, hotel, civil engineering plants, etc.) It is relatively low cost, one time, and occasionally replacing a failed media converter.

THIS.^^^^^ Ideally, 50 micron multi-mode. Thought that is perhaps overkill depending on how many cameras etc..

OK, so what kind of fiber should be run, if you want to do say 10GPS, for future proofing?

We may have quite a few cameras/moisture monitors/etc hooked up, eventually.

quote:

Originally posted by r0gue:

THIS.^^^^^ Ideally, 50 micron multi-mode. Thought that is perhaps overkill depending on how many cameras etc..

 
Yes. But OM1 will not provide 10Gbps at your distance. You would need OM2, OM3, or OM4.

POE for cameras is easy assuming you have electricity in the barn. You’ll just need a POE switch in the barn. The hard part is the connection between the house and barn.

A wireless bridge would be fairly simple for that distance. This would be two external antennae, one mounted to each building. The one on the barn would have a wire going through the wall of the barn to the POE switch. The one on the house would have a wire going into the house and connected to the switch in your house. If that switch is not POE, you’ll need a POE injector at that point to power the bridge.

{tries to remember all that cable shit from the A+ exam, gets distracted by a jar of pickles...}

The monkey speaks the truth. ethernet in a trench is a lightning magnet. You will be replacing switches. Grandparents have POTS daisy chained out to 2 metal barns from the house (50s or older). The DSL adapter was replaced at least 10 times, even with a surge suppressor on the line & power. You already have the hard part taken care of with the fiber (trench).

Cheaper option is a mesh network to hop to the barn. that router supports onemesh, which is easy to setup. I have it's smaller, cheaper sibling AX1800 & a $30 onemesh extender RE315. the router is in my basement, the extender is on the wall facing the house ~100' away, through a 2x6 wall, concrete walkout wall & insulated metal/OSB wall. The extender shows weak signal, but it works fine. I haven't tested max-speed, but it will stream ~6mbps from my plex server to a firestick & projector with no issues.
Even if you needed 2 extenders to make the jump, it's a <$100 solution to a $500 problem & you'd likely get better coverage at your pool as well. Depending on signal strength, you might have issues with multiple HD POE cameras, but you can cross that bridge later, there are other ways.

quote:

Originally posted by Aglifter:
OK, so what kind of fiber should be run, if you want to do say 10GPS, for future proofing?

We may have quite a few cameras/moisture monitors/etc. hooked up, eventually.

For the simple point to point "wired" (fiber) solution. Just plug it in.

Enclosures (x2) will add about $100 to demarc the fiber and converters to protect the fiber, but if the area is secure and not subject to anything or anyone messing with the equipment, it would be fine to attach the media converters to the wall/back board and velcro stapled to hold the fiber securely.

As an example. $130 (Low end)

Media converter x2

https://www.amazon.com/Gigabit...tronics%2C258&sr=1-3

fiber x1

https://www.amazon.com/Jeirdus...tronics%2C234&sr=1-5

You can spend a bit more and have ethernet switch capable media converter on on or both ends.

WiFi mesh as stated will also serve the puprose and give you signal in places you don't/won't have wire, and you can add to and extend range with repeaters.

I used Ubiquiti equipment, although it has been several years.

WiFi was much more expensive e for reliable equipment, and I pretty much walked away from all of it, and do not "follow tech" anymore.

(over 40 years of computer tech has left me burnt out)

if using Fiber just get a switch that has SFP Ports on each end.
Also if using POE devices make sure it has POE ports as well to power and supply data to those devices.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:

For the simple point to point "wired" (fiber) solution. Just plug it in.

Enclosures (x2) will add about $100 to demarc the fiber and converters to protect the fiber, but if the area is secure and not subject to anything or anyone messing with the equipment, it would be fine to attach the media converters to the wall/back board and velcro stapled to hold the fiber securely.

As an example. $130 (Low end)

Media converter x2

https://www.amazon.com/Gigabit...tronics%2C258&sr=1-3

fiber x1

https://www.amazon.com/Jeirdus...tronics%2C234&sr=1-5

You can spend a bit more and have ethernet switch capable media converter on on or both ends.

Thanks so much! Everyone!

Monkey...

I had thought of fiber but knowing nothing about it figured it more complicated than I wanted to deal with and expensive.

Is it really plug and play?

Guessing it would normally be run in conduit. I surprised in the low cost, the PVC conduit would cost more than the cable!

Sorry, hate to impose further but...
Can you link a suitable ethernet switch capable media converter and enclosures?

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
{tries to remember all that cable shit from the A+ exam, gets distracted by a jar of pickles...}

So you can imagine how I feel... I never had any of that cable shit to start with!

Thanks to the forum however I will likely get all the shit I need.... wait...
I mean HELP I need.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
if using Fiber just get a switch that has SFP Ports on each end.
Also if using POE devices make sure it has POE ports as well to power and supply data to those devices.

What he said ^^^^^

I agree that, since you have the trench still open, fiber would be the best route. That's what I'd do.

Alternatively: A pair of point-to-point wireless bridges such as the EnGenius ENH500v3 Wi-Fi 5 Wave 2 Outdoor AC867 5 GHz Wireless Bridge

I'm using a pair of those to backhaul my buddy's cabin to the pole barn that has the LTE modem in it. From my iPad connected to the AP in the cabin to my laptop plugged into one of the Ethernet ports on the LTE modem I was seeing better than 350Mb/s with iperf3.

The monkey and the others are right about running Ethernet cable parallel to power for that length. Not recommended. Plus direct-bury Ethernet cable is both expensive (I'd use only Belden), difficult to acquire in put-ups less than 500 feet, and, being gel-filled, a PITA for work with.

(Contrary to popular belief: You don't want to put Ethernet cable in buried conduit, even if it's direct-bury cable. You cannot prevent water collecting in the conduit unless it's pressurized with either dried air or nitrogen. Eventually the cable ends-up sitting in water, and even direct-bury cable will eventually fail in those conditions.)

Take a look at the Ubiquiti equipment, it’s prosumer friendly. Lots of flexible options and not insanely expensive or difficult to set up

I’m in the process of building my network out. Eventually will add Poe cameras

Or EnGenius network gear, which is every bit as good as Ubiquiti, IMO, and doesn't require a separate management tool or management software.

quote:

Originally posted by cparktd:...
Monkey...

I had thought of fiber but knowing nothing about it figured it more complicated than I wanted to deal with and expensive.

Is it really plug and play?

Guessing it would normally be run in conduit. I surprised in the low cost, the PVC conduit would cost more than the cable!

Sorry, hate to impose further but...
Can you link a suitable ethernet switch capable media converter and enclosures?

Based on the info so far, I would go with the two converters and the fiber and switches/routers as needed.

A fiber/ethernet switch (4 or more ports) is likely to cost more than the converters on each end and buying a unmanaged switches as needed. If space or other issues are a concern, then it might make sense.

Typically one does a site survey and takes into account everything and looks/suggests future needs, changes and whatnot that the person needing the solution may not think to include.

Trying to do this as we are makes it possible to miss something or fail to understand exactly all of the variables.

My perspective was to answer a known simple to employ, low cost, and certain to work for the point to point from house to barn.

If there are other things involved, that might change it. But for a "physical" connectivity, going with fiber is a good choice, and equipment can be added/changed on that fiber for a long time going forward.

The cost of "direct bury" fiber that is terminated (just drop in, bury, and plug in the connections) for your distance is about $400-$500. Compare that to the cost of fiber and conduit, and the difference may help you decide.

I and others can keep kicking ideas and solutions.

Just let us know if this is going the right direction.

Thanks for the help, and patience! As they say, I even don't know what I don't know when it comes to this stuff.

First off room isn't an issue. See photo below

Plug and play... two of my favorite words.
I seem to find myself leaning toward the media converters solution.

Back story...
I had a router and cheap wifi extender (maybe it was a repeater?) at my last home, the extender served the patio and gazebo. Two problems with that. First the speed was not good on the extender... And... They worked as two separate networks. The overlap meant I had to manually switch when moving from one area to the other with my phone. Cheap but poor solution. I have to assume this is avoidable...

We depend on wifi calling here for our cell phones, poor coverage area, this is one reason for needing seamless reliable wifi in the barn.

Am I to assume the fiber cable you linked earlier is not recommended for direct bury? Will it survive in conduit with the inevitable water that always accumulates in buried conduit?

Can you point me to a suitable direct bury cable to compare?

Thanks so much!

Coax is another option (MOCA standard does ethernet over coax). But honestly Fiber is likely better for several reasons if you are willing to pay for it. The coax will likely be 1 Gbps, IIRC.

It's just that coax is easy to direct bury, as the cable TV folks have learned over the years, and the actual 75 ohm coax is pretty cheap.
Looks like it's still pretty cheap.

Since the trench is there anyway, some direct bury coax might be a good cheap backup to put in there, just to have in case something happens to the fiber etc. I mean why not? It's only $40.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: radioman,

quote:

Originally posted by cparktd:...

Am I to assume the fiber cable you linked earlier is not recommended for direct bury? Will it survive in conduit with the inevitable water that always accumulates in buried conduit?

Can you point me to a suitable direct bury cable to compare?

The fiber linked earlier is not recommended direct bury.

https://www.amazon.com/Jeirdus...cs%2C234&sr=1-5&th=1

It does have "armored sheath" and is well protected from exposed areas, weather, but here is a link to custom made direct bury if you want to take a peek and get an idea.

https://www.lanshack.com/4-Str...QuickTreX-P8005.aspx

It is about $35 dollars a foot. But you have 4 strands (you require two) so, you have an extra pair just in case a termination gets damaged (unlikely, but it could happen)

You only need measure for the exact run, plus the amount on each end to get into both buildings and to the demarc point where you will connect equipment.

For example, you could have the fiber and media converters into the house and the barn with the shortest run of fiber with allowance for a small loop of about a foot or so at each end.

Then you use ethernet cable from the media converter to the equipment at each site.

https://www.amazon.com/Gigabit...tronics%2C258&sr=1-3


Say the place in the house is 40 feet from the media converter, you simply run ethernet from the media converter to the network equipment rather than trying to get the fiber to that location.

So a run of fiber with the terminations and a "pull eye" on one end would be about $440 for 40 meters/130 feet of fiber.

So, that vs the cost of fiber @ a bout $50 for the same length and cost of conduit.

Equipment enclosures similar to this can be used in house and barn for fiber demarc and media converters.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Le...ng_Without_PLTV_data