Off-duty FBI agent allegedly shot a man accidentally after gun falls on dance floor in Denver bar

June 03, 2018, 04:18 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
quote:
Originally posted by wcb6092:
He should face the same charges as the average citizen would. Doubt it will happen though.

So, if you don’t mind, what exactly are the “same charges” that the average citizen would face? Specific statues, please.

What are the specific charges, as they apply to this situation that the “average citizen” would be charged with? And the legal justification of why by statue.

I dunno the laws are there.

In NV the BAC for legal CCW is 0.08%, same as for driving. As long as you are under 0.08%, you are legal, in a bar or not.

In CA, it is 0.0. A year or so ago someone from a county DA’s office got jammed up for drunken stupidity with a gun on the street by the capitol. The approach taken was unlawfully carrying a concealed weapon without a permit because though the permit was in his pocket it was null and void once he had his first sip of alcohol.

I’d guess even with NV style laws he’d be held responsible for the damage done by his ND, even if there were no laws broken. Stupidity isn’t illegal though, right?

June 03, 2018, 04:31 PM

a1abdj

From the website of a Colorado attorney that specializes in weapons violations.

quote:

You violate Colorado's law on prohibited use of a weapon when:

You have a firearm in your possession while you are under the influence of intoxicating liquor or of a controlled substance -- a strict liability offense. This means you don't have to have intended to use the weapon or have acted with any degree of legal culpability. Simply possessing a firearm while intoxicated is a violation of Colorado's law against prohibited use of a weapon

And I'll go out on a limb here and assume that since this lawyer has this webpage explaining these types of things that the state of Colorado has indeed charged regular Joe Schmoes with this crime.

June 03, 2018, 04:53 PM

Rightwire

The FBI has some serious work to do to rebuild it's reputation as right now I wouldn't trust most of them with a nerf gun and Jr. Detective set.

The father of a girl that I went to HS with was a local FBI agent. He was the epitome of a professional at all times. There was no doubt from the moment that you met him that he was a cut above most. I can't even comprehend him or any of the other agents that I've met EVER behaving like that, even without a weapon.

June 03, 2018, 05:00 PM

justjoe

I don't go to clubs, and I don't dance-- but WTF??That was some weird freaking gyration, right there...

June 03, 2018, 05:05 PM

ulsterman

"You call the Director and tell him."

"No, I'm senior to you. You call him."

"Let's get Jones to do it, he's junior to both of us."

"JONES! Get in there!"

June 03, 2018, 06:50 PM

nhracecraft

Once an F.B.I. Special Agent...Now a

Famous
Back-flipping
Imbecile!

June 03, 2018, 11:53 PM

Rightwire

You're screwed when your Director gets a video tweeted to him from the President with the caption "look what one of your idiots did for 1M hits" before you can even get home to pass out.

June 04, 2018, 01:32 AM

bigdeal

After watching the video, I think this shakes out one of two ways. One, this retard was plowed while carrying and doing stupid things, therefore he should not be employed by the FBI. Or two, he's incompetent beyond belief, therefore he should not be employed by the FBI. Given his attire, I'd say chances are good both may be the case. Regardless, he should be prosecuted for shooting a man in the leg.

June 04, 2018, 06:11 AM

ScreamingCockatoo

Wow what an idiot.
There is no allegedly. He discharged that gun when he picked it up.

June 04, 2018, 06:38 AM

bionic218

quote:
Originally posted by reflex/deflex 64:
Panic at the disco.

June 04, 2018, 07:24 AM

szuppo

quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
quote:
Originally posted by wcb6092:
He should face the same charges as the average citizen would. Doubt it will happen though.

So, if you don’t mind, what exactly are the “same charges” that the average citizen would face? Specific statues, please.

What are the specific charges, as they apply to this situation that the “average citizen” would be charged with? And the legal justification of why by statue.

Well first off I'm pretty certain they wouldn't have interviewed me and released me to my supervisor.

"Police investigators interviewed the agent before releasing the agent to an FBI supervisor. The police investigation was continuing, and any charges would be determined by the Denver District Attorney's Office, said Officer Marika Putnam."

Let's start with this:

18-12-106. Prohibited use of weapons

(1) A person commits a class 2 misdemeanor if:
(a) He knowingly and unlawfully aims a firearm at another person; or

(b) Recklessly or with criminal negligence he discharges a firearm or shoots a bow and arrow; or

(c) He knowingly sets a loaded gun, trap, or device designed to cause an explosion upon being tripped or approached, and leaves it unattended by a competent person immediately present; or

(d) The person has in his or her possession a firearm while the person is under the influence of intoxicating liquor or of a controlled substance, as defined in section 18-18-102 (5). Possession of a permit issued under section 18-12-105.1, as it existed prior to its repeal, or possession of a permit or a temporary emergency permit issued pursuant to part 2 of this article is no defense to a violation of this subsection (1).

(e) He knowingly aims, swings, or throws a throwing star or nunchaku as defined in this paragraph (e) at another person, or he knowingly possesses a throwing star or nunchaku in a public place except for the purpose of presenting an authorized public demonstration or exhibition or pursuant to instruction in conjunction with an organized school or class. When transporting throwing stars or nunchaku for a public demonstration or exhibition or for a school or class, they shall be transported in a closed, nonaccessible container. For purposes of this paragraph (e), "nunchaku" means an instrument consisting of two sticks, clubs, bars, or rods to be used as handles, connected by a rope, cord, wire, or chain, which is in the design of a weapon used in connection with the practice of a system of self-defense, and "throwing star" means a disk having sharp radiating points or any disk-shaped bladed object which is hand-held and thrown and which is in the design of a weapon used in connection with the practice of a system of self-defense.

That's just a start. I'm pretty sure his BAC wasn't taken but I guarantee any old regular Joe's would have been. Add into the fact that he shot someone and was released to his supervisor? WTF is that?

I can already see the cover story circulating about the gun going off as he grabbed it. Not that he fired it. Just more bullshit.

June 04, 2018, 07:56 AM

SgtGold

Someone's beeb watching too much Starsky & Hutch.

June 04, 2018, 08:57 AM

gw3971

quote:
Originally posted by a1abdj:
From the website of a Colorado attorney that specializes in weapons violations.

quote:

You violate Colorado's law on prohibited use of a weapon when:

You have a firearm in your possession while you are under the influence of intoxicating liquor or of a controlled substance -- a strict liability offense. This means you don't have to have intended to use the weapon or have acted with any degree of legal culpability. Simply possessing a firearm while intoxicated is a violation of Colorado's law against prohibited use of a weapon

And I'll go out on a limb here and assume that since this lawyer has this webpage explaining these types of things that the state of Colorado has indeed charged regular Joe Schmoes with this crime.

Has it been reported that this fool was intoxicated? I'm just not sure if the intoxicated dancer is gonna pull off the back flip when most cant walk a straight line on flat surface.

June 04, 2018, 09:30 AM

nighthawk

Would any normal person who carries a firearm, do a backflip, without having a drink or several in them ?

June 04, 2018, 10:14 AM

jljones

quote:
Originally posted by szuppo:
quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
quote:
Originally posted by wcb6092:
He should face the same charges as the average citizen would. Doubt it will happen though.

So, if you don’t mind, what exactly are the “same charges” that the average citizen would face? Specific statues, please.

What are the specific charges, as they apply to this situation that the “average citizen” would be charged with? And the legal justification of why by statue.

Well first off I'm pretty certain they wouldn't have interviewed me and released me to my supervisor.

"Police investigators interviewed the agent before releasing the agent to an FBI supervisor. The police investigation was continuing, and any charges would be determined by the Denver District Attorney's Office, said Officer Marika Putnam."

Let's start with this:

18-12-106. Prohibited use of weapons

(1) A person commits a class 2 misdemeanor if:
(a) He knowingly and unlawfully aims a firearm at another person; or

(b) Recklessly or with criminal negligence he discharges a firearm or shoots a bow and arrow; or

(c) He knowingly sets a loaded gun, trap, or device designed to cause an explosion upon being tripped or approached, and leaves it unattended by a competent person immediately present; or

(d) The person has in his or her possession a firearm while the person is under the influence of intoxicating liquor or of a controlled substance, as defined in section 18-18-102 (5). Possession of a permit issued under section 18-12-105.1, as it existed prior to its repeal, or possession of a permit or a temporary emergency permit issued pursuant to part 2 of this article is no defense to a violation of this subsection (1).

(e) He knowingly aims, swings, or throws a throwing star or nunchaku as defined in this paragraph (e) at another person, or he knowingly possesses a throwing star or nunchaku in a public place except for the purpose of presenting an authorized public demonstration or exhibition or pursuant to instruction in conjunction with an organized school or class. When transporting throwing stars or nunchaku for a public demonstration or exhibition or for a school or class, they shall be transported in a closed, nonaccessible container. For purposes of this paragraph (e), "nunchaku" means an instrument consisting of two sticks, clubs, bars, or rods to be used as handles, connected by a rope, cord, wire, or chain, which is in the design of a weapon used in connection with the practice of a system of self-defense, and "throwing star" means a disk having sharp radiating points or any disk-shaped bladed object which is hand-held and thrown and which is in the design of a weapon used in connection with the practice of a system of self-defense.

That's just a start. I'm pretty sure his BAC wasn't taken but I guarantee any old regular Joe's would have been. Add into the fact that he shot someone and was released to his supervisor? WTF is that?

I can already see the cover story circulating about the gun going off as he grabbed it. Not that he fired it. Just more bullshit.

You damn right you wouldn’t be released to the Denver SAC. You would have to released to........you. Yep. No matter what on a low level misdemeanor they issue a citation in lieu of arrest. In this very public case, even if it had of been you, or me, they would not have driven forward with charges without the investigation being complete, and any potential charges would be in the form of a summons, not even a warrant. And that would be only IF they could prove negligence and not just dumbassery.

I ll post more later tonight, but there just aren’t any charges here, outside of MAYBE a low level misdemeanor if they can prove he was drinking.

People shoot others (and themselves) negligently every day. And rarely can anyone be charged because it isn’t illegal to be a dumbass and have a gun. It sucks. I don’t agree with it. But when we actually read what the law says with the definitions that apply to that chapter, criminal charges often do not fit because being stupid is not illegal.

June 04, 2018, 10:24 AM

gw3971

quote:
Originally posted by nighthawk:
Would any normal person who carries a firearm, do a backflip, without having a drink or several in them ?

He is a legend in his own mind. He lives in the same world that most people live in and "nothing bad is gonna happen to me". His dance moves aside, his balance seemed pretty okay to me.

June 04, 2018, 11:01 AM

Lord Vaalic

Why "allegedly"? The guy did it on video, there nothing alleged about it. He did it.

He should be fired. This clown has no business carrying a firearm. He probably just made another dozen anti 2A voters in that room from his antics, not to mention seriously wounding someone and possibly killing them.

I'm betting an average citizen would lose their CCW or this, he should lose the right to have a pistol issued to him by the govt. Fire him as an example and start to clean up the damn FBI.

June 04, 2018, 11:32 AM

HRK

One, nothing wrong with me
Two, nothing wrong with me
Three, nothing wrong with me
Four, nothing wrong with me
One, something's got to give
Two, something's got to give
Three, something's got to give now
Let the bodies hit the floor
Let the bodies hit the floor
Let the bodies hit the floor
Let the bodies hit the floor
Let the bodies hit the floor
Let the bodies hit the floor

June 04, 2018, 11:43 AM

Icabod

Interesting question: Did the police do a blood draw or breathlizer test?
I can see this happening (or the equipment didn't work or the results were "lost")
This would allow him to escape the ND while drunk issue.

June 04, 2018, 12:05 PM

c1steve

I agree with an above reply that if he was drinking, and above .08%, he would not have been able to do a back flip. So most likely, besides the ND, the primary FBI rule he broke was using a non approved holster.

They have others in the FBI who are much stupider, or blatantly disregard rules, such as Comey. People make mistakes when young. Usually they learn from their mistakes, but not always.