Senate Group, Including 10 Republicans, Announce Breakthrough on Gun Control Deal

June 13, 2022, 05:10 PM

reloader-1

I would be in favor of exactly these legal changes, considering that most gun crime is committed with either straw purchase or stolen guns. Here’s the “compromise”:

1. Repeal the NFA

2. A straw purchase is a life sentence for both purchaser and intended recipient.

3. Deleted. It’s quoted below, if you want to read it, but after consideration removed this one.

4. Gun theft MUST be reported within 24 hours of discovery, else owner is liable.

This gives freedom back to lawful gun owners, but also shifts the onus of responsibility back on them. #3 is a tough one, but that cuts down on a shitload of of crime. Gun ownership, like voting, is a right but also a responsibility.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: reloader-1,

June 13, 2022, 05:24 PM

P220 Smudge

quote:
Originally posted by bionic218:
quote:
In the interest of discussion what changes in current gun laws would you consider?

None

Disagree. Repeal NFA. I’d be in favor of that. Other than that, nothing. No more fucking gun laws!

quote:
Originally posted by reloader-1:
3. Guns must be securely stored, accessible only by the owner(s). If it is left unsecured, I.e. in a car, the owner is liable for the exact same punishment that the person who stole the gun is charged with. In other words, “unsecured truck gun” is stolen, used in a homicide - sorry bud.

4. Gun theft MUST be reported within 24 hours of discovery, else owner is liable.

This gives freedom back to lawful gun owners, but also shifts the onus of responsibility back on them. #3 is a tough one, but that cuts down on a shitload of of crime. Gun ownership, like voting, is a right but also a responsibility.

How about no? How about if someone steals a fucking gun and kills someone with it, we hang the thieving, murdering waste of skin? Punish the owner? You go on about responsibility, then put it on the person who got stolen from. How about we start holding people responsible for their own actions? 3 and 4 are concessions that the gun is the thing that needs regulating, not the lawbreaker. No.

June 13, 2022, 05:31 PM

Fly-Sig

quote:
Originally posted by reloader-1:
I would be in favor of exactly these legal changes, considering that most gun crime is committed with either straw purchase or stolen guns. Here’s the “compromise”:

1. Repeal the NFA

2. A straw purchase is a life sentence for both purchaser and intended recipient.

3. Guns must be securely stored, accessible only by the owner(s). If it is left unsecured, I.e. in a car, the owner is liable for the exact same punishment that the person who stole the gun is charged with. In other words, “unsecured truck gun” is stolen, used in a homicide - sorry bud.

4. Gun theft MUST be reported within 24 hours of discovery, else owner is liable.

This gives freedom back to lawful gun owners, but also shifts the onus of responsibility back on them. #3 is a tough one, but that cuts down on a shitload of of crime. Gun ownership, like voting, is a right but also a responsibility.

You fundamentally do not understand the gun ban left. Here's what happens with your compromises:

2) Straw purchase laws will be redefined incrementally and/or via activist prosecutions (DA, judge, jury) which extend the definition to include things which are simply not criminal intent. We all agree that a true straw purchase for the purpose of arming a prohibited person should be punished. The problem is when a non-prohibited person acquires a firearm indirectly via another person. e.g. I buy a home defense weapon and then truly coincidentally my sister picks up a stalker, so she buys it from me. Neither of us is prohibited, but this transaction could appear as a straw purchase.

3) Secure storage will be incrementally strengthened to require specific measures (required locks, safes, etc), and require law enforcement approval. Then it will be subject to unannounced ~~searches~~ inspections to verify. Note that a person today who is negligent is subject to criminal or civil prosecution. A gun left on the car seat with the windows down is one potential scenario. You are proposing to make the victim of a crime (theft, breaking and entering, etc) responsible for the down stream actions of the criminal. If your car is stolen should you be criminally responsible for what they do? You can see how this would ratchet up what you'd have to do to "secure" your car. Boot the tires, steering wheel "club", finger print verification, etc. And now in an emergency you can't find one of the 6 keys needed to drive your car...

4) This will be abused. How do they know when you know of a theft? They don't but they will impose assumptions. I've had this discussion with leftists and they believe a person should know where all their guns are all the time. When you come home from work you should know if your guns are all there. They believe the owner of terribly deadly things should constantly monitor their location. If your home is broken into while you're on a 2 week vacation, they will say you should have had a security system especially to know if your guns were stolen. We had a house-sitter who unknown to us had her druggy boyfriend stay with her, and he stole a bunch of things (jewelry, etc) which we didn't immediately detect. It took a few days.

Gun owners have given and given and given. All compromise has been in one direction, which is giving up freedom. When have the gun ban side ever given anything back? Anything gained has been won via legislative majority (e.g. CCW). There is no way the left will ever give back something like NFA.

June 13, 2022, 05:32 PM

reloader-1

I grant you #3, P220, but #4 should be critical. You are the lawful owner of a firearm until you are not; once that changes, you MUST notify, else you are complicit in any crimes that occur.

Edit: Fly-Sig, I was explicit on my compromise; no half measures. NFA repealed, and “secure” could be explicitly written out. No checks, oversight, etc. By the way, this is the one I’d be most willing to kill.

You are free to write other laws, those are what I suggest.

June 13, 2022, 06:01 PM

12131

Again, the commies' ultimate goal is total ban of private firearm ownership, so repealing the NFA and GCA is a pipe dream. Good for academic discussion, but that's about it. Ain't ever going to happen, and y'all know that. The only way it can happen is a complete overhaul of the government by ridding it of swamp rats on both sides and having folks who truly support and defend the Constitution voted in office holding unbreakable majority. Anybody see this happening in our lifetime or your children's children's? So, the focus is not give an inch more. FUCK THEM!

June 13, 2022, 06:12 PM

recoatlift

My grandkids will never know the USA like I was privileged to know, born in ‘48… truly an America loving time. God I miss it!

June 13, 2022, 06:24 PM

oddball

quote:
Originally posted by 12131:
So, the focus is not give an inch more. FUCK THEM!

...with the jagged end of a broken bottle.

June 13, 2022, 06:50 PM

PeteF

quote:
Originally posted by reloader-1:
I would be in favor of exactly these legal changes, considering that most gun crime is committed with either straw purchase or stolen guns. Here’s the “compromise”:

1. Repeal the NFA
Agree

2. A straw purchase is a life sentence for both purchaser and intended recipient.
No, I buy a gift for my son, life sentence?

3. Guns must be securely stored, accessible only by the owner(s). If it is left unsecured, I.e. in a car, the owner is liable for the exact same punishment that the person who stole the gun is charged with. In other words, “unsecured truck gun” is stolen, used in a homicide - sorry bud.

NOT JUST NO HELL NO. So my wife cant use my firearm to defend herself? You break into my car/ house and steal my gun and I get punished?

4. Gun theft MUST be reported within 24 hours of discovery, else owner is liable.

This gives freedom back to lawful gun owners, but also shifts the onus of responsibility back on them. #3 is a tough one, but that cuts down on a shitload of of crime. Gun ownership, like voting, is a right but also a responsibility.

June 13, 2022, 06:58 PM

RichardC

quote:
Originally posted by reloader-1:
I would be in favor of exactly these legal changes ... :

3. Guns must be securely stored, accessible only by the owner(s). If it is left unsecured, I.e. in a car, the owner is liable for the exact same punishment that the person who stole the gun is charged with. In other words, “unsecured truck gun” is stolen, used in a homicide - sorry bud.

4. Gun theft MUST be reported within 24 hours of discovery, else owner is liable.

Oh, helll, no.
What the fuck is wrong with you?

June 13, 2022, 07:05 PM

Riley

quote:
Originally posted by goose5:
In the interest of discussion what changes in current gun laws would you consider?

The changes I would consider: repeal of the GCA of 1968, repeal of the NFA act of 1934. Repeal of the FOPA of 1986 etc.

June 13, 2022, 07:10 PM

P220 Smudge

quote:
Originally posted by reloader-1:
You are the lawful owner of a firearm until you are not; once that changes, you MUST notify, else you are complicit in any crimes that occur.

No, I’m not. This is no different than “safe storage” for me. Someone else steals my gun and commits crimes with them, then they have committed the crimes with the gun, not me. What if I’m out of town and don’t even know they’ve been stolen? What are the police going to do if I tell them someone stole my shit, anyways? They’re going to take a report, mark them stolen, and the guns are still just gone until asshole gets caught with them. Me reporting them doesn’t do fuck all to stop a crime.

June 13, 2022, 07:17 PM

Balzé Halzé

quote:
Originally posted by RichardC:
quote:
Originally posted by reloader-1:
I would be in favor of exactly these legal changes ... :

3. Guns must be securely stored, accessible only by the owner(s). If it is left unsecured, I.e. in a car, the owner is liable for the exact same punishment that the person who stole the gun is charged with. In other words, “unsecured truck gun” is stolen, used in a homicide - sorry bud.

4. Gun theft MUST be reported within 24 hours of discovery, else owner is liable.

Oh, helll, no.
What the fuck is wrong with you?

Yeah, seriously. Get the fuck out of here with that shit.

I'm so sick of gun owners, damned Americans frankly, rolling over to this tyrannical, un-American crap. I'm not willing to give up a single damn thing. I don't care how unreasonable people think I am.

Compromise? Kiss my ass.

June 13, 2022, 07:19 PM

parabellum

Guys

June 13, 2022, 07:27 PM

RichardC

I apologize for my language, reloader-1.
Sorry, parabellum.

June 13, 2022, 07:31 PM

reloader-1

Apologies for perhaps starting something, but as 12131 stated, repealing the NFA is a nonstarter, so the rest of my “compromises” are also a non-starter.

My whole point was that IF we were to get Disneyland, i.e. NFA, GCA, etc repealed, these are the only compromises I would give for that.

2. A gift is not a straw purchase

3. Eff it. Kill this one.

4. We can now legally own/carry full auto, post-86 firearms. Notice I mentioned “discovery”, in this brave new world, perhaps we can take some more responsibility for checking our firearms when we return from a trip, etc.

Again, my post was in the spirit of a “true compromise” that would never exist. IF it did, that is what I’d be willing to accept for full repeal of the NFA/GCA.

Edit: RichardNC, no need to apologize. If you read my post as compromises in exchange for nothing, then there is something seriously wrong with me. That is NOT the case

To the rest, I was very clear: if the NFA is not repealed, then the rest is unacceptable. Only if #1 takes place do we even entertain the rest.

June 13, 2022, 08:08 PM

Balzé Halzé

Alright, I understand your position. I'm still not willing to compromise a thing (because we're dealing with the devil here), but I get it.

I suppose if you have a fully auto Thompson in your safe, knowing that it's still there upon return after a week long vacation might be prudent. I don't think I ought to be liable for any abuses if stolen, but I get it.

June 13, 2022, 08:11 PM

reloader-1

Thanks Alan, and on hindsight my point #3 was quite poorly thought out, so best to ignore that one.

To be frank, you are one of the members I respect the most here, and value your opinion highly. I understand in the current climate, where the word “compromise” means we give up everything and get nothing, we must hold the line.

My current position is zero compromise, by the way. But, in a magical world where we can repeal the NFA…

June 13, 2022, 08:50 PM

P220 Smudge

I still think your fourth proposal doesn’t actually accomplish anything, not with the way law enforcement works. In regards to stolen guns, police are basically like dog catchers. Sure, they can take a report and keep an eye out for the stolen guns, and maybe an investigator looks for a suspect. The thing is, unless it’s a situation where the suspect is identified and they can just go zip the guy, then the only way a stolen gun turns up is when it’s used in a crime. Unless I’m mistaken, that’s generally how stolen guns are recovered, is they get taken off a shitbag in a traffic stop, in the commission of a crime, or off a dead guy. Knowing the gun was stolen only aids in returning the stolen property to the rightful owner, it’s not something that prevents any crime committed with the gun.

If I’m mistaken or outright wrong anywhere in there, I’d love for someone to set me straight. It’s possible there’s a good argument for this being something we punish for if it’s not reported, but I can’t see how it accomplishes anything except for giving the government another thing to ding people on. I’m not in favor of doing that for any reason - we live in a society so laden with laws that you’re bound to break a few every day just innocently going about your business. We love videos of politicians and public officials pulling the classic “don’t you know who I am?” around here.