So I’m on my final home improvement project....finish the basement.

Can I frame over the French Drain? Or do I have to put the base/sill next to it?

Before we moved in, the owners had a wet basement. They installed a French drain and two dump pumps. It’s dry as a bone.

Here’s a photo:



I’d imagine I shouldn’t nail or screw into it?

If you need to get to that sweep then you should be able to access it without tearing up any flooring...I’d leave some kinda access hatch.

I believe the exposed part of your drainage system is there to drain water potentially coming in through cracks in the wall. I would assume there was an actual problem with the basement flooding because no one does that set up for fun. It's dry now, but it wasn't in the past. It's expensive. My dad had it done in his house in Michigan last year.

I don't know the right way to finish a wall like that. I suspect attaching rigid insulation, furring strips, and drywall to the wall is wrong. I suspect building a stud wall and not having anything touching the concrete wall is closer to being correct.

How do you plan to finish the wall?
I would use furring strips and make sure nothing solid is covering the cap.

Well, In regard to the cap, I was gonna put a closet there, because the fuse box is right above it.

My issue is can I attached 1” rigid insulation to the wall with adhesive (ceiling to floor).

The frame as you would any other basement. I’m just trying to figure out if there’s something different I should do since the French drain (covered by concrete), goes around the perimeter.

I don't understand what I'm looking at. I see a cap in a wall. What is that for? I see some black material coming down the corner and heading along the bottom of the wall on the surface of the floor. What is that? The wall in the foreground appears to be poured concrete, but I can't tell what that is in the left-hand side of the photo. Or what's going on in the upper-left corner.

I know nothing about french drains or what you should do here, but I do know that pic is sideways/rotated 90°.

The walls are block, and the cap is in the floor, which is poured concrete. The french drain runs around the perimeter of the floor at the base of the walls.

That said, what's up the expandable foam on the floor & walls?

quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:
I know nothing about french drains or what you should do here, but I do know that pic is sideways/rotated 90°.

The walls are block, and the cap is in the floor, which is poured concrete. The french drain runs around the perimeter of the floor at the base of the walls.

That said, what's up the expandable foam on the floor & walls?

Just a bunch of foam on the floor I haven’t swept.

^^^Gotcha, that explains it. I gotta say, I was seriously hoping it wasn't part of the previous owners 'water mitigation plan'!

quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:
I know nothing about french drains or what you should do here, but I do know that pic is sideways/rotated 90°.

Good grief.

Corrected photo:



That makes a lot more sense

quote:

Originally posted by RAMIUS:
My issue is can I attached 1” rigid insulation to the wall with adhesive (ceiling to floor).

I don't know. I guess you could. But 1 in. wouldn't be sufficient. Neither is adhesive alone.

I did this:



Link to original video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKQdo88Ne74

The local stores did not stock the tongue-and-groove product, so I seam-sealed the butt joints with Tyvec™ tape.

Advantage is 100% vapor shield. But I would guess you can't cover that drain that runs around the perimeter. Box it, perhaps? Like a soffit, but around the bottom, rather than the top? I don't know what with, though. Raw wood in direct contact with concrete is a no-no. Trex®, maybe?

One thing that video does not discuss is insulating the rim joist. Interior-facing surface has to the flame-retardant. I put the same 2 in. rigid foam on the rim joist, then a layer of 1 in. foil-backed, flame-retardant rigid foam insulation over that. I seam-sealed the butt joints in that with aluminium duct tape. Also: You want to seam-seal the edges of that insulation with something like Great Stuff. Use the low-expansion version, or it can pop your insulation right off if it gets behind it! I first sealed all the edges of the rim joists with Great Stuff, trimmed the excess, then insulated.

I used adhesive recommended for rigid foam insulation. Problem was: It had all the initial tack of toothpaste. So I had to do this kind of thing:



until the stuff set up thoroughly. (Which, I found out the hard way, took about 48 hours.) I was subsequently informed Liquid Nails® Fuze*It!® has high initial tack and won't melt the insulation. (I would test it, first.)

Here is a photo of my finished insulation and framing:

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:
I know nothing about french drains or what you should do here, but I do know that pic is sideways/rotated 90°.

Good grief.

Corrected photo:



That makes a lot more sense

quote:

Originally posted by RAMIUS:
My issue is can I attached 1” rigid insulation to the wall with adhesive (ceiling to floor).

I don't know. I guess you could. But 1 in. wouldn't be sufficient. Neither is adhesive alone.

I did this:



Link to original video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKQdo88Ne74

The local stores did not stock the tongue-and-groove product, so I seam-sealed the butt joints with Tyvec™ tape.

Advantage is 100% vapor shield. But I would guess you can't cover that drain that runs around the perimeter. Box it, perhaps? Like a soffit, but around the bottom, rather than the top? I don't know what with, though. Raw wood in direct contact with concrete is a no-no. Trex®, maybe?

One thing that video does not discuss is insulating the rim joist. Interior-facing surface has to the flame-retardant. I put the same 2 in. rigid foam on the rim joist, then a layer of 1 in. foil-backed, flame-retardant rigid foam insulation over that. I seam-sealed the butt joints in that with aluminium duct tape. Also: You want to seam-seal the edges of that insulation with something like Great Stuff. Use the low-expansion version, or it can pop your insulation right off if it gets behind it! I first sealed all the edges of the rim joists with Great Stuff, trimmed the excess, then insulated.

I used adhesive recommended for rigid foam insulation. Problem was: It had all the initial tack of toothpaste. So I had to do this kind of thing:



until the stuff set up thoroughly. (Which, I found out the hard way, took about 48 hours.) I was subsequently informed Liquid Nails® Fuze*It!® has high initial tack and won't melt the insulation. (I would test it, first.)

Here is a photo of my finished insulation and framing:

That seems like a lot of work and expense for what you get...

What we have done for years and meets current code (which the video doesn’t) is just to frame a regular wall using PT wood for the plate and the regular 2x4 studs 24” OC. You set the wall about 1/2” off the concrete, or in this case in front of the floor drain. You can now run any wiring or plumbing you need easily.

After the mechanical has been run you can install conventional batt insulation (non faced) either R-13 or R-15 and then drywall over it.

The framing and insulation are both less expensive and better than what is shown in the video...

Again, I'm fairly certain the answer to attaching insulation to the existing block and concrete walls is no. That works in basements that don't have water problems. Attaching rigid insulation to your walls will not allow the water to flow into the drain.

Your basement has a water problem. Nobody installs an interior perimeter drain system after the house is built unless they have a water problem. It cost $17,000 to have it done in my parents' house. In your picture, you can see the irregular line about 18" from the wall where the new concrete meets the old concrete. In other words, it was installed after the house was built to correct a water problem in your basement.

That plastic between the slab and wall is designed to let water seeping in through the wall to flow down the wall into the drain pipe that runs around the interior of your footer to your second sump pit.

With respect to the other posters in your thread, they are missing that you have an interior drain system in addition to your exterior one. I spent a month last summer learning about this to help my dad figure out what to do about his flooding basement. I'm going to spend a bunch of time this summer redoing his man cave to fix the walls that were removed to install the drain tile and second sump pit.

My parents' basement was dry since 2005 when the house was built up until last year when Lake Huron exceeded the OMHW (Ordinary Mean High Water) of 581.5 feet. That combined with the river that flows into the lake right in front of their house getting closed off whenever the winds came from the east was enough to raise the water table under the house. We kept digging the river mouth out while we where there, but that doesn't work while we aren't.

We could have just let the basement flood and hope the lake levels went down in the future (they are expected to be higher this year, but we didn't know that last year) or do the interior drain system.

I only mention my parents' situation because the cause of their problem is intermittent. Your basement's issue maybe as well. Even though it's dry now, it wasn't at some point, and may very well happen again. At least the floor shouldn't flood again, but the water may have been coming through the walls.

Looking at your picture again, the wall on the left has been coated with something and the wall in the back shows water marks half way the bottom row of blocks. Above that area is what looks like white powder called eflourescence. It happens when moisture seeps through porous concrete.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: trapper189,

quote:

Originally posted by smlsig:
That seems like a lot of work and expense for what you get...

First of all: It's not necessary to full-quote an entire, photo-heavy post when following up. The Boss has requested on several occasions members stop doing that.

quote:

Originally posted by smlsig:
What we have done for years and meets current code (which the video doesn’t) ...

In what way(s) does it not meet code?

quote:

Originally posted by smlsig:
... is just to frame a regular wall using PT wood for the plate and the regular 2x4 studs 24” OC.
...
... install conventional batt insulation (non faced) either R-13 or R-15 and then drywall over it.

The framing and insulation are both less expensive and better than what is shown in the video...

That provides no vapor barrier and a non-continuous air and thermal barrier. Thus it creates an ideal breeding ground for mold due to moisture gathering behind the studs, insulation and rock. The method shown in the video results in a seamless air, thermal, and vapor barrier.

So how, exactly, is the old way "better?"

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
Again, I'm fairly certain the answer to attaching insulation to the existing block and concrete walls is no. That works in basements that don't have water problems. Attaching rigid insulation to your walls will not allow the water to flow into the drain.

...

That plastic between the slab and wall is designed to let water seeping in through the wall to flow down the wall into the drain pipe that runs around the interior of your footer to your second sump pit.

Ah. That's how that works. I wondered about that.

Now I understand what the other guys who'd wanted to quote fixing a couple leaks in our basement would have done. Glad I went the other way.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
With respect to the other posters in your thread, they are missing that you have an interior drain system in addition to your exterior one.

Not missing it so much as not understanding it. So, yeah: The system I used would be a non-starter and what he probably would have to do is something more like what smlsig described, only keeping the insulation and everything else off the walls and outside that perimeter drain.

RAMIUS, you may want to run over to DIY ChatRoom and ask over there for recommendations, as well. Lots of contractors and builders over there.

^^^
Ensigmatic a couple of points..

My apologies for taking up too much bandwidth..

Secondly, I’m not sure what professional experience you have in construction but I’ve had a Class A License (Unlimited) for over 37 years. Watching a ‘This Old House” doesn’t not make one an expert.

The part of that video that is a code violation is the insulation does not meet code for where the OP lives and it is not responsible to post something like that which infers it does... If you go to table R402.1.2 in this link
https://www.energycodes.gov/si...IECC_residential.pdf

You will see that he needs R-15 to 19 depending on the particulars of how the OP decides to build the wall.

Also if you read my post carefully I said to build the wall in front of the drain to allow it to function properly..

I truly appreciate the depth of knowledge on this board and I have learned a lot. Sometimes, particularly when dealing with a subject that requires professional certification, watching a video is not the best way to go about finding the best way to accomplish your goals.

quote:

Originally posted by smlsig:
Secondly, I’m not sure what professional experience you have in construction but I’ve had a Class A License (Unlimited) for over 37 years. Watching a ‘This Old House” doesn’t not make one an expert.

Fair enough. I have zero professional training or experience in construction. But I do a lot of research.

I'm not going to argue construction with a pro, so, on the rest of your points we'll just have to agree to disagree. Except ...

quote:

Originally posted by smlsig:
Also if you read my post carefully I said to build the wall in front of the drain to allow it to function properly..

You are correct. And if you read my post you'll note I allowed as how the solution I employed would not work for him.

quote:

Originally posted by smlsig:
... watching a video is not the best way to go about finding the best way to accomplish your goals.

Fair enough, except I did more than watch the video. I also researched that solution quite extensively, including on-line conversations with the contractors & builders to which I referred in my previous post, before proceeding.

Everything I read suggested fiberglass batt insulation is contraindicated in (potentially) damp applications, such as basements, these days? Reasons being those I mentioned previously, plus it's R-value diminishes when it gets wet.