You posted a photo in the Biden Idiot/Ukraine War thread of a bunch of old M1 tanks in a depot somewhere.

My question is what do we do with those tanks?

Are they eventually pulled out, refurbished and modernized? For example the Army has a new version of the M1 coming on line. Rather than pull active tanks out of service to upgrade (thus reducing overall active, available numbers and strength) are these old tanks what actually get upgraded? Then what these "new" tanks replaced end up in the depot waiting their turn to be upgraded to some future standard.

Or are they like the Air Force Boneyard, simply units to be stripped of parts as needed and possibly available for reactivation in the event of a large, no-shit, clear the benches type war. I assume its cheaper and faster to simply bring them back into service (as is) than build new ones, or wait on new production lines to tool up for mass production.

Does something else happen to them?

I'm guessing we must have a metric shit-ton of surplus M1's sitting in Depots by now.

What about the M60's They still around in Depots? I know we still use the M60 chassis for different vehicles, Engineers etc.

.

Have a friend that drives a semi and he hauls only military stuff. A lot of his loads are stripped out M1 tank bodies. Nothing but the main shell. One place strips them down for parts to keep other tanks going and then they are shipped to other shop that rebuilds them with all new parts.

Ok, short answer.

I have no idea.

Those tanks are out in the pasture. OLD M1's.

I have been following the Ukrainian War and I have seen people ask about just sending old M1's as military assistance.

No way in hell.

Where do I start.

Speaking from a pure maintenance standpoint it takes MONTHS to train an Abrams mechanic. You just can't take your buddy who can get the John Deere diesel running and put him a tank mech slot.

I have literally had kids straight out of tank mech school that couldn't tell me how to check the oil.

The basic school for the USMC used to be 5 months; some asshole Commandant reduced that to 3 months.

I hear the Army does 3 months.

Can you name the basics of Trouble shooting? Differentiate between the turret and the hull?

Tell me what an engine protective mode is? Let alone identify it...

Sending ANY old M1 to support Ukraine is an exercise in futility.

Now let's talk parts.

The US Army has set a date for the sunset of the M1A1 tank. 2025.

Long before that tank sunsets the parts begin to sunset.

"Obsolescence"

Holy crap. Ten years ago I had issues getting parts to support the USMC M1A1 FEP tanks. Yes, the Army still operates the M1A1 SA. But many of our parts are common.


The Army had an entire civilian engineering corps working on obsolescence. The Corps had two guys.

That gun turret drive, that was certified in 1978? Well the resistor on the A2 elevation board went obsolete in 1992.

Finding a new spec resistor in 2020? LOL

We just cant build that old shit any more. Not to mention that Army Colonel said he was transferring his obsolescence engineers to newer things.

So no, as much as I want the Ukrainians to win sending them old M1's will do nothing.

What was the question?

Oh yes. Fields of M1 tanks.

Only useful if they go through depot to be upgraded and sold to a friendly country with a CLS package.

M60's???

A few weekends ago I was at a NG drill for shits and giggle.

Talked to a "team chief" (what the Army call's a maintenance chief)

Heard all sorts stories about M60's.

They are before my time, and I am OLD.

The USMC only used the M60A1. I have seen the parts, I talked to the old timers, but I'm not an M60 guy.

quote:

Originally posted by kg5388:
Have a friend that drives a semi and he hauls only military stuff. A lot of his loads are stripped out M1 tank bodies. Nothing but the main shell. One place strips them down for parts to keep other tanks going and then they are shipped to other shop that rebuilds them with all new parts.

On the way to ANAD for overhaul. And it may have changed but the only place that is licensed to remove the turret armor is the LATP. Lima Army Tank Plant.

I think only ATC can demill it though.

By law ANAD does 51% of the work, Lima does 49%

(Lima is the old school tank plant. I went to weld school there once. Lima is an awesome town. I was there in 2004 when the Sox won the World Series. The local bartender let me stay after last call to cheer the Sox on).

I'll always give Lima a special place in my heart.

Looking back over your question...

I believe the US has built around 8000 M1 series tanks. From 1978 to present. ANAD says there has never been a new hull built since 1993.

I can look at the hull serial number and tell you when it was built.

All USMC tank purchases were between 1990 and 1997.

If you look in the TM it will say (on some parts) "tank S/N xxxx to tank S/N xxxxx)

And if you are USMC tank mech you need to know your tank serial number.

All of our tanks were built between 1986 and 1993 (but upgraded to 13th year built for parts purposes...or so they told me) .

Our tanks build were split between LATP and DATP.

Lima Army Tank Plant and Detroit Army Tank Plant.

DATP closed for M1's in 1993. "The Arsenal of Democracy"

A few years ago I ran across a guy, who knew a guy,
who met a guy, who gave me this T-Shirt.

I'm just spitballing old memories here..

The threat of fire for a Russian T72 or equivalent was three rounds per minute (autoloader).

Our tanks crews used to train for 4 rounds per minute (4 man crew, loader).

So during that one minute timeframe a good crew could drop an extra round on the commie's.

We had them. Good gravy we had them.

Now just because I'm thinking about this. I had a tiger that took one in the front. Like a perfect shot. Hardest part of the tank. Front glacius.

Tank was fine. Crew was fine. When she got back all sorts of wierdo's came in to measure, to examine.

From what I heard, unofficial like, she took a Chinese ATGM. Burrowed a BIG fucking hole in the front.

We welded it up and kept on trucking.

God that was a decade ago.

(Shaking his head) I don't want to say "we oughtta throw a war more often", but I don't know where else I'd ever get a chance to read more on this without diving into a rabbit hole. Thanks, mbinky.

quote:

Originally posted by mbinky:
Heard all sorts stories about M60's.

They are before my time, and I am OLD.

The USMC only used the M60A1. I have seen the parts, I talked to the old timers, but I'm not an M60 guy.

When I went to track mechanic school (M60), the M1 Abrams was barely a "glint in the Army's eye!"
What does that make me?? Yes, "an old timer", I know. I know!

Seems to me like we have another candidate for a SigForum group buy!

Thanks for the reply mbinky.

Appreciate it.

quote:

Originally posted by architect:
Seems to me like we have another candidate for a SigForum group buy!

I ordered an 80% receiver that should be here soon for a home build!

^^^^
That is a cool picture. I think it is Anniston. Only because I remember Lima having less clutter and better lighting. The hulls in the upper right look like Strykers and both plants do those so that doesn't help.

Those two turrets, lower right and lower left, interest me. The have both had their front armor packages worked on. And the number on the one on the lower right follows the pattern for a turret serial number that has been modified (it could just be 4 digits and a letter scribbled for local tracking I guess...). I don’t know if turret serials followed the pattern of the hull serials but if they do that turret was built in late 1982; early M1A1, and all of those others look like they are M1A1 upgradable turrets (meaning they can be converted to A2's). The USMC never had any "M" turrets we only had "U" ones. Very early we had the no letter ones but they were replaced as the fleet got added to.

That pic on the left gives you a REAL good idea of the depth of the armor package the turret has.

"Front Towards Enemy" is more than just for claymores




PS Monthly 692


Early evolution.




Ok funny story time.

So the Marines like to ford their equipment. All of our tanks could accept the deep water fording kit. A standard Abrams can ford 48” but with the kit you could ford to the turret roof (76” with 96” swells, but don’t quote me; it’s been a while)

So one day the platoon that was doing work up’s for the next MEU was at the beach doing “surf ops”. That’s where they cruise the beach, practice pointing into the surf like they are going to load onto an LCAC, get use to being near the water, driving in the sand, etc. Fording stacks are not installed.

So we get a call. Tiger down, aborted, won’t fire up. We cruise down there in the 88 to check it out. Tank is dead just out of the surf zone. One of the boys jumps in to see if it cranks. No dice. You can hear that the engine blew up. Sounds like Reynolds wrap hitting a fan when the starter spins. (Happens when water gets ingested into a turbine).

So we tow it back.

In the rear the kids begin to pull the pack to see what’s up.

I talk to the Lt (it’s ALWAYS an Lt) to try and see what happened.

ME: “So Sir, what were you doing?”

SIR: “ Well we had just backed into the the surf zone..”

<me interrupting>

ME: “Excuse me Sir, so you BACKED into the surf zone?”

SIR: “Yes”

ME: “Why?”

SIR: “Well we need to keep the front towards the enemy. So I backed in”

ME: “Sir….you do realize that big gun on the top rotates all the way around…right?”

SIR: No answer.

By backing into the surf zone the air intake was exposed and when a wave came in it swamped the back deck, covering the air intake and killing the engine.

At the time an engine only cost around $500K. I’ve heard they are closer to $1M now.

M1A1 with deep water fording kit installed. The tank IS running.

Yuma Proving Grounds circa 2003.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mbinky,

Mbinky, I certainly do like your well explained, and backed up with pictures, posts.

Your posts remind me of when I was younger. A friends dad was a Vietnam vet, in MACVSOG, and told of similar stories, albeit, more from an infantryman perspective. He ended up working for "contractors" building ranges for tanks out in the CA/AZ desert area. I used to have a T shirt he gave me, regarding the training area. Full of symbols and numbers that anyone but military could understand. Sadly, that shirt died many years ago.

Thanks for the memories!

Although the the M88 recovery vehicle does have a fording kit, this is not how it is used...(found these on my phone and had to laugh. 6-7 years ago at Camp Lejeune)





Feeling nostalgic. Just found my old set of schematics out in the garage.

Give me a multi-meter and these and me and the boys could fix anything.

A pic from the DSESTS van in Trashcanistan (good eats, btw..) circa 2012.



And a pic I just took, circa 2022:



I love my schematics

(Dam I made a lot of notes....)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mbinky,

I so want an M88. It's the coolest thing on tracks.

There's so much I could do on the farm with one.

If I had a HET too, I could have a U-Toob channel like Matt's Offroad Recovery except I'd spend my weekends pulling bro-dozers out of the Green Swamp.

quote:

If I had a HET too, I could have a U-Toob channel like Matt's Offroad Recovery except I'd spend my weekends pulling bro-dozers out of the Green Swamp.

Heavy D Sparks runs a HET with a wrecker body on Youtube. They do several things well, but being a wrecker is not one of them. I'm surprised more of these Youtube guys haven't killed themselves with some of the sketchy stuff they do.

[Robin Williams Scotsman Voice] Fook no! I wouldn't have ne HET wrecker, I'd have a HET Flatbed to haul the 88 to the swamp! Ima ne fook around with 8 wheel driphe! Not when I've got 28" tracks! Those things turn the world the other wey![/Robin Williams Scotsman Voice]

It was a Hot Summer Night...(took these about a month ago...)







One thing I have always asked is that if you roll to maintenance, you AT LEAST close the ammo door. Sigh.





That is a shitty tube. But it does not fail checks so we will fire it. Crew PM is LACKING.



The ammo temp gage is kaput. The kids shot off of the ambient temp because: 1) the ammo isn't in the compartment that long, and 2) it was hot as shit so the temp in the turret was about equal. The gunner can just load default numbers, or whatever number he wants. Where we were shooting it didn't make any difference.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mbinky,

What’s the difference in the TM1 & TS1 ammo?