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So now voluntary intoxication with marijuana can be used as a legal defense for murder? Login/Join 
Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best
Picture of 92fstech
posted
Heard this on the radio this morning and couldn't believe what I was hearing. Whatever side of the argument you fall on regarding legalization, this is a bad precedent. Society can't function in an environment where people can't be held accountable for their actions simply because they were drunk or high at the time. How do you even send somebody to jail for drunk driving if they can claim "my client didn't understand what he was doing and can't be held responsible for his actions because he was drunk"?

I know in Indiana, voluntary intoxication cannot be used as a defense. It's also not one of the conditions that can be used as a mitigating factor for sentencing. Is that not the case in California? What do our Sigforum attorneys think about this one? Sentencing likely to get overturned on appeal if the prosecution takes it there?

https://ktla.com/news/local-ne...tenced-to-probation/


quote:


Family members of a man stabbed to death by a Ventura County woman during an episode of cannabis-induced psychosis in 2018 are outraged after a judge on Tuesday sentenced the 32-year-old woman to two years of felony probation and no prison time.

Thousand Oaks resident Bryn Spejcher was convicted of involuntary manslaughter last month in the killing of 26-year-old accountant Chad O’Melia.

On May 27, 2018, the 32-year-old went to O’Melia’s apartment where they both took several hits from a bong filled with marijuana. Spejcher experienced an adverse reaction from the marijuana and suffered from Cannabis-Induced Psychotic Disorder, authorities said.

During that psychotic break, she stabbed O’Melia multiple times, eventually killing him. She also stabbed herself repeatedly, officials said.

The next morning, officers arrived at the apartment to find O’Melia in a pool of blood and Spejcher screaming hysterically while still holding a knife in her hands. As officers tried to disarm her, Spejcher plunged the knife into her neck, authorities said.

“Officers used a taser and several baton blows before they were able to finally disarm Spejcher,” police said. “A long-serrated bread knife was taken from her hands.”

O’Melia was pronounced dead at the scene.

Spejcher has been out on bail since the 2018 slaying.

“It’s been five and a half years where she has got to live with her family and we get to live with a box of ashes,” the victim’s brother, Shane O’Melia, said.

The 32-year-old, who had only been dating the victim for a few weeks, was found to have stabbed O’Melia 108 times with three different knives.

“These are things everyone agrees on,” Ventura County Deputy District Attorney Audry Nafziger said. “What we don’t agree on is that she should have walked free today after doing what she did.”

Spejcher faced up to four years in prison along with sentence enhancements, though the judge ruled that given the facts, he didn’t believe it was warranted.

“He took into account her lack of criminal record, her professional standing in the community and that she did in fact suffer from severe psychosis at the time killing and really did not know what she was doing,” KTLA Legal Analyst Alison Triessl said of the judge’s sentence.

The judge cited evidence and expert testimony, also saying the 32-year-old did not know marijuana would have this type of effect on her when she smoked with the 26-year-old victim that night.


O’Melia’s family say they are also worried about the broader impact of this ruling.

“I think he set an absolute terrible precedent in the state of California where it’s okay to kill somebody after you smoke marijuana,” the victim’s father, Sean O’Melia, said.

“Does it set a precedent? I don’t know if does, but it’s certainly a case that defense counsels will cite when asking for probation in a case like this,” Triessl said.

If Spejcher violates her probation, the judge said she will have to do four years of prison time. She was also sentenced to 100 hours of community service.

While the 32-year-old, nor her family members have returned KTLA’s requests for comment, she did tearfully address the judge Tuesday. She begged for forgiveness and said she will spend her life doing good for others.
 
Posts: 9563 | Location: In the Cornfields | Registered: May 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Just because you can,
doesn't mean you should
posted Hide Post
California?
Say no more.


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Posts: 9985 | Location: NE GA | Registered: August 22, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Mistake Not...
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A book attempting to put in print every "Weird Ruling By a Judge" would be at least 16,212 pages long if printed in 10 point type, single spaced.

Though I will tell you that trying to suss out the whys of this ruling from a "news" source is hopeless.

And sentencings, as a general rule, are difficult to appeal. I understand "from the outside" it can seem like a routine thing from a news point of view, but I guarantee it that for every appeal you see granted, 986 are affirmed. The legal system just would not work otherwise. And any appeal by the State would be highly dependent on CA's rules pertaining to such things, which I am not privy to.


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Posts: 2121 | Location: T-town in the 253 | Registered: January 16, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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How is this not treated just like a death from DUI? The difference is the level of effect an voluntarily ingested substance has? The difference in anticipated level of impact? Both?

Unless for medicinal purposes, she should be banned from any recreational drugs for life with regular conformance checks. That's the least she should be subjected to. She should be in in prison for homocide.




"Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it." L.Tolstoy
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Posts: 13223 | Location: In the gilded cage | Registered: December 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Thank you
Very little
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We've seen people use the "mental illness" defense for decades, nothing new, the big question is.....

How could anyone have a psychotic episode from the use of MJ, it doesn't do that, and has far less impact than the use or abuse of alcohol,

Aren't we're constantly reminded MJ has zero negative impacts on society or personality....
 
Posts: 24667 | Location: Gunshine State | Registered: November 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by 220-9er:
California?
Say no more.

Unfortunately what happens in Commiefornia, does not stay in Commiefornia


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Posts: 342 | Location: Land of 10000 Taxes | Registered: March 19, 2022Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by HRK:
How could anyone have a psychotic episode from the use of MJ, it doesn't do that,...

Yes, it does. Sometimes.

Not defending this ruling, but marijuana can cause psychosis and schizoprenic episodes.


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Posts: 21011 | Location: Montana | Registered: November 01, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lawyers, Guns
and Money
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^^^ I see Gus beat me to it...

quote:
On May 27, 2018, the 32-year-old went to O’Melia’s apartment where they both took several hits from a bong filled with marijuana. Spejcher experienced an adverse reaction from the marijuana and suffered from Cannabis-Induced Psychotic Disorder, authorities said.

During that psychotic break, she stabbed O’Melia multiple times, eventually killing him. She also stabbed herself repeatedly, officials said.

several hits from a bong? That's it? I'm not buying it...

However, we are seeing a growing body of evidence linking marijuana with schizophrenia.

Association between cannabis use disorder and schizophrenia stronger in young males than in females

https://www.cambridge.org/core...41CB8529A326C3641A68



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Posts: 24879 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best
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Lowsmith, thanks for your insight...those are some valid points, and we probably don't have all the information...at least I hope we don't.

quote:
How is this not treated just like a death from DUI? The difference is the level of effect an voluntarily ingested substance has? The difference in anticipated level of impact? Both?


It's nothing like a death from DUI, I was just using DUI as an example of the type of case that could get thrown out if this type of logic is allowed to prevail in the court system.

A DUI fatality typically involves somebody negligently causing a death due to a diminished ability to drive while impaired. There's no intent to cause harm, just willful negligence resulting in death.

In this case, this lady got high, then stabbed a dude 108 times. That doesn't happen by accident or through negligence...it's absolutely intentional. But she's trying to negate her culpability by saying that she was impaired and didn't know what she was doing, due to the affects of the drug that she willingly ingested. If that line of reasoning is allowed to prevail, then you can't hold anybody accountable for anything they do under the influence, ever.

quote:
We've seen people use the "mental illness" defense for decades, nothing new, the big question is.....


Mental illness is different from willful impairment. Mental illness is a medical condition beyond the subject's control. Willful intoxication is a completely avoidable condition, and cannot (or at least should not) absolve the person from responsibility for their actions after they've placed themselves into that state.
 
Posts: 9563 | Location: In the Cornfields | Registered: May 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Optimistic Cynic
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Mental illness or not, it seems to me the salient factor here is whether the controlling authority (or civil folks in general) believes whether what happens in the mind, or what happens in the physical world should prevail in determining a sentencing outcome. Could this may be the differentiating factor between a "liberal" and a "conservative" mindset, or at least perspective? It may go a long way in understanding why a seemingly irreconcilable polarity exists.

What's more important, what happened, or how someone believes what happened? One side would say "if you can't perceive reality, you are mentally ill." The other side would say, "perception is reality." Maybe we should put up a poll on the matter (but in this crowd, I am pretty sure of the results of such)?
 
Posts: 6945 | Location: NoVA | Registered: July 22, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Unmanned Writer
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I read it the same way - the murder was 100% preventable - do not do drugs. Easy.

Wanna kill your ex? Go to a dispensary, buy some edibles, eat a couple (toss the rest so it appears you ate them all), kill your ex, use "Cannabis-Induced Psychotic Disorder" as your defense.

Just make sure you stab your ex more than 100 times along with their dog/cat/pet and a couple stabs to you own leg or arm.

Then go to the state for your disability pay...






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Posts: 14257 | Location: It was Lat: 33.xxxx Lon: 44.xxxx now it's CA :( | Registered: March 22, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Ice Cream Man
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Its deep. and fuzzy memories, but the closest thing I can think of, was some cases about if a person didn't have reason to expect that a prescription drug would impair them, but it did, they could avoid a DUI charge, as the intoxication wasn't voluntary.

And, it's entirely possible I have those wrong.
 
Posts: 6040 | Location: Republic of Ice Cream, Low Country, SC. | Registered: May 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Casuistic Thinker and Daoist
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quote:
Originally posted by Aglifter:
Its deep. and fuzzy memories, but the closest thing I can think of, was some cases about if a person didn't have reason to expect that a prescription drug would impair them, but it did, they could avoid a DUI charge, as the intoxication wasn't voluntary.

And, it's entirely possible I have those wrong.

I think I vaguely remember something like this...although the first thing that came to mind was the Twinkie Defense that Dan White use in the Harvey Milk trial.

Just reading the article, even considering that this happened in a CA court, I'm thinking there is a lot more to this story that would lead the judge to basically override the Voluntary part of the charge.

I'm a bit surprised that she didn't get any jail time...but interestingly she has 2 years formal probation with 4 years of jail time hanging over her. 4 years is the mid term for Manslaughter...if she'd been sentenced to jail time, it would have likely been the 2 years lower term




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Posts: 14290 | Location: northern california | Registered: February 07, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best
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quote:
4 years is the mid term for Manslaughter.


That's an interesting point as well, and something I did not know. I just looked up involuntary manslaughter in Indiana. Here it's just a level 5 felony, which carries an advisory sentence of only 3 years (with a range of 1-6 based on aggravating or mitigating factors). I guess we also need to consider why the prosecutor only pursued involuntary manslaughter in this case rather than going after a higher level charge. It seems very inappropriate in this case, at least on the surface, but to Lowsmith's point, there's probably stuff we don't know.
 
Posts: 9563 | Location: In the Cornfields | Registered: May 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Down the Rabbit Hole
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I'll never get near the stuff. This documentary shows exactly what will happen is you decide to go down that road.



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Posts: 4965 | Location: North Mississippi | Registered: August 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Peace through
superior firepower
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Cannabis didn't cause that. GMAFB

That gal is just plain crazy.

What a load of horse shit.
 
Posts: 110088 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Liberal judges and/or Soros prosecutors are a huge problem. The sentence above is a crime.


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Posts: 1649 | Registered: June 11, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Thank you
Very little
Picture of HRK
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quote:
Originally posted by Gustofer:
quote:
Originally posted by HRK:
How could anyone have a psychotic episode from the use of MJ, it doesn't do that,...

Yes, it does. Sometimes.

Not defending this ruling, but marijuana can cause psychosis and schizoprenic episodes.


Can't be true, every time the subject comes up we get post after post saying MJ doesn't cause anything but a desire to watch cartoons and eat oreos or doritos.... Razz

MJ of the 70''s to 80's probably not, the shit they sell today is synthetic or cultivated super high THC weed, designer stuff, seriously more powerful stuff.

I'd bet though there was something else in the weed, if it really was weed she ingested/smoked, since the only other witness to it is dead.
 
Posts: 24667 | Location: Gunshine State | Registered: November 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Peace through
superior firepower
Picture of parabellum
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by HRK:
MJ of the 70''s to 80's probably not, the shit they sell today is synthetic or cultivated super high THC weed, designer stuff, seriously more powerful stuff.
Sampled it, have ya? Then and now? Tell us all about it.

And don't ever mock me in this forum.

If some of you want to use this bullshit excuse of a case to bolster your dislike of cannabis, go ahead, but this fools no one who knows the score.

To me, this is akin to coroners specifying COVID as the cause of death when someone dies in a motorcycle accident, just because the person tested positive for the virus. It's deceptive bullshit. This bitch is crazy, but just because she ingested cannabis, oh yes, then that's the reason. Please Roll Eyes
 
Posts: 110088 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Casuistic Thinker and Daoist
Picture of 9mmepiphany
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 92fstech:
quote:
4 years is the mid term for Manslaughter.


I guess we also need to consider why the prosecutor only pursued involuntary manslaughter in this case rather than going after a higher level charge.

That's usually the first hint that there is more to this case than reported.

Prosecutor, as a rule, over charge so that they can pled bargain it down and still get a win




No, Daoism isn't a religion



 
Posts: 14290 | Location: northern california | Registered: February 07, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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