I've been mostly happy with our new sheriff. He is tough on crime, twice as tough if you wear the badge. He has his deputies back 100%, unless they are in the wrong. Then they are held accountable. There have been a handful this year that have been arrested before being fired.
Earlier this month during a traffic stop of a person carrying a concealed firearm, an officer tried to disarm them and the gun went off shooting thr driver.

From the story;
“A source said the officer was stripped of all her regular duties, including taking away her car, gun, and badge.”

“And in this document, JSO said just because “a person is carrying a concealed firearm does not automatically mean that person poses a threat.” It goes on to say an officer “should not seize a firearm from someone lawfully carrying it.””

The news reported that The driver declared the gun when asked and was carrying IWB. The officer tried to pull the gun off the driver when "it discharged" and JSO is calling it an officer involved incident vs an officer involved shooting, I think for dept metics and reporting. I expect the officer will be quietly fired after they get her state credentials revoked. I also expect the driver will be financially compensated to some degree.

This policy should have been clarified before permitless carry was approved but at least the policy recognizes that simply carrying a gun is not grounds for action.


Link to story

Indiana does not require you to inform that you are carrying during a stop and I have never been asked. Pretty sure they know I have a lifetime permit when they run my plates.

Now that we are constitutional carry I'm not sure if they will ask, but I haven't been stopped since that passed.

And I’m sure the Deputy told the victim, “This is for your safety” just before shooting them…


I notified a WA State Trooper one time (though not required). At least he let me remove from holster to hand to him. Then he proceeded to unload and remove the slide, you know “for safety”. Left the parts on the hood 0f my car and told me I could take care of it after he left.

Last time I notified unless asked.

I've always thought this was backwards. How can officer safety be more important than the safety of a member of the community when the officer is doing a job that's supposed to put them in danger in order to protect the community?

I once had an officer disarm me when I was carrying a Kahr. I told him that it was similar to his Glock, didn't have a regular safety, and to make sure his finger was clear of the trigger when unholstering it. He then offered to let me remove it and hand it to him which I politely declined, as there's no way in hades I'm going to handle a firearm in front of somebody who's already nervous that I'm carrying. He removed it without incident.

I recently took a concealed carry class taught by two LAPD SAS officers and I asked them what kind of training the LAPD receives on interacting with lawful CCW holders.

Since surrounding counties are far ahead of L.A. County on issuing CCW permits, they both replied that they receive no training whatsoever. To the regular officers on the street, finding or learning about a gun is no different than finding a gun on a 'banger - goal is to remove guns from streets.

You might be proned out and your gun will be seized because they won't take the time to have L.A. County contact the CCW people in adjacent counties. You have to work to have it returned at some future date. If you have a gun friendly officer, he is more likely to see the gun on your permit and treat you much better.

In my county, I'm under a duty to disclose.

To be clear, Florida Statute 790.06 - “License to carry concealed weapon or firearm” An individual has no “duty to inform” a law enforcement officer that they are carrying a concealed weapon or firearm unless the officer asks.

Florida is NOT a duty to inform state so you are not obligated to tell them just because they stopped you.

However, if they stop you for an investigatory purpose and ask “are you carrying any weapons” or “are you carrying a gun” or anything like that you MUST tell them the truth or assert your right to remain silent. You can not lie to them as that is a crime in itself.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
To be clear, Florida Statute 790.06 - “License to carry concealed weapon or firearm” An individual has no “duty to inform” a law enforcement officer that they are carrying a concealed weapon or firearm unless the officer asks.

Florida is NOT a duty to inform state so you are not obligated to tell them just because they stopped you.

However, if they stop you for an investigatory purpose and ask “are you carrying any weapons” or “are you carrying a gun” or anything like that you MUST tell them the truth or assert your right to remain silent. You can not lie to them as that is a crime in itself.

It always surprises me how many people who carry in Fl, don't know this.

I have never informed when stopped and I have only been asked once. He asked what the weapon was and where it was at. I told him gun, front right pocket. He said to make sure it stayed there, and proceeded to write me a ticket. He seemed pretty indifferent to the whole thing.

My old neighbor who is with JSO told me once that he didn’t ask, he said "this is Fl, I figure every car has a gun in it." (Permits were never required to have a gun in your car)

How do you balance that with this (more text plus pictures and videos in the link) which happpened a week and a half ago at a gas station down the street from me:

'He had no chance': Charlotte Co. Sheriff details the moments before, after Sgt. Diaz's killing

Sgt. Diaz first attempted to help the shooter after realizing that he was homeless and his car was uninsured.

By: Shari Armstrong , Kaitlin Knapp
PORT CHARLOTTE, Fla. — The Charlotte County Sheriff's Office held a news conference on Thursday to detail the findings of their investigation into the shooting death of Sgt. Elio Diaz last Sunday.

Helping a homeless man: An hour before the shooting:

Sgt. Diaz first attempted to help Andrew Mostyn Jr after realizing that he was homeless and his car was uninsured, according to Sheriff Bill Prummell.

Sgt. Diaz was conducting a traffic stop at the Chevron gas station located on Tamiami Trail in Port Charlotte, across the street from the Sunseeker Resort.

The sheriff says just after 3 p.m., Sgt. Elio Diaz was traveling northbound on the U.S. 41 bridge in Punta Gorda.

He says Diaz ran the license plate on a white pickup truck which returned a "FR Suspension" on the driver. An FR Suspension is a financial responsibility - indicating that the insurance on the truck lapsed or there never was insurance on the vehicle.

The truck pulled into the gas station, and Sgt Diaz initiated a traffic stop.

Sheriff Prummell described the suspect's encounter with Diaz as "cordial" and no weapons were visible at the time of their encounter.

The two interacted for more than an hour.

Diaz learned that the 24-year-old suspect was homeless and living out of the truck.

"Elio was working with him to try and contact the insurance company to try and get his insurance reinstated so we would not have to tow that truck, and all the property that was in it because his entire life was in it," the sheriff said.

The shooting and moments after:

"He had no chance," the sheriff said.

Diaz was working in his car, and eventually returned back to the truck. As he called out to the Mostyn, the sheriff says Mostyn retrieved a rifle from his truck and shot Sgt. Diaz.

As Diaz fell, Prummell says Mostyn kept walking toward the sergeant while he was laying on the ground. The sheriff's office says the suspect fired at least 10 shots, and Sgt. Diaz was hit multiple times.

Prummell says Diaz had no time to fire back.

Mostyn drove away from the scene in his truck.

Sgt. Diaz was taken to the hospital and later died.

The search that followed:

A multi-agency manhunt was launched for Mostyn. Investigators say he switched out a Florida license plate for a Georgia tag on his truck and put on a ballistic vest.

The vest was armed with Level 3 steel plates on the front, back and sides, according to the sheriff.

About an hour after Diaz was shot, the shooter's pickup truck was located in a Popeye's parking lot near I-75 and Kings Highway by Corporal Nate Edwards.

He called for backup and Deputy Andrea Short was a minute away.

Deputy Short was the first to respond. The sheriff says Edwards and Short drew their weapons and ordered the driver to show his hands.

They say Mostyn did not comply.

The sheriff says Deputy Short saw Mostyn make an "overt movement" as he was holding the rifle.

At that moment, Short fired her gun. Mostyn was shot in the head and later died.

The Charlotte County Sheriff's Office provided dashcam video from a deputy's perspective, showing the shell casing roll down the windshield after the single shot.

Body-worn camera footage from a second deputy also shows video of the suspect's "overt movement" to grab a gun.

Investigators later discovered that there were 18 rounds in the magazine, and one in the chamber, according to the sheriff.

"The firearm that he used was a Romarm SAR-1, which was lying in his lap, and he used .762 rounds, which were full metal jacket," Prummell said.

Inside of the truck:

"The shooter in this case was prepared and ready for a fight," Sheriff Bill Prummell said.

He says there was "well over a thousand rounds of ammunition", loaded magazines, a crossbow, two gas masks and two additional rifles in the shooter's truck.

Some of the guns were a bolt-action rifle .22, a semi-automatic rifle with a scope — a .556, and the one used to kill Diaz.

The photos also show knives, a gun cleaning kit, ear protection and more.

The armored vest also contained pouches with a loaded magazine, a trauma kit and a med kit, according to the sheriff.

"Andrea (Deputy Short) stopped what could've been a potential blood bath. In my book, she's a frickin' hero," Sheriff Prummell said.

The gun used in the shooting was purchased in Pennsylvania back in 1999 and was traded to a dealer in Orlando, but they are working to confirm that.

Deputies are working to learn more about how the shooter got the weapons.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
How do you balance that with this (more text plus pictures and videos in the link) which happpened a week and a half ago at a gas station down the street from me:

There's nothing to balance.

There's a big difference between what happened in that article & disarming someone who is legally carrying a concealed firearm and has notified the officer (and the officer likely already knew that). The difference is intent. You can implement all the stompy-feet-we-have-to-do-something draconian policies you can think of, but you'll cause more of the incidents like the one that started this thread than you'll stop.
Easy example - instead of shooting the officer after an hour, the crazy dude could have been ready to attack as the officer exited the vehicle. A ready AK vs a holstered pistol with a surprised half-exited officer isn't going to end well.

Did Diaz let his guard down? I always have my hands visible as an officer approaches my car. Sad that he was killed while trying to help the homeless man.

Found this to be an odd comment: "The vest was armed.." Also, why investigate how the weapons were acquired. Unless I missed it, the article didn't mention the man having priors that would prevent gun ownership.

Man shot with his own gun during traffic stop with Jacksonville officer speaks

https://www.actionnewsjax.com/...CWFGKVNZCZJLNZHM2LE/

For the first time, we are hearing from a man who was shot with his own gun during a Jacksonville traffic stop.

Jason Arrington and his attorney Kay Harper Williams held a news conference downtown on Friday. They announced their plans to file a lawsuit in connection with the incident.

Arrington said his gun went off when a Jacksonville Sheriff’s Officer was trying to remove it from his holster during a traffic stop on Friday, Dec. 13 on North Main Street near 27th Street in Brentwood.

“She tugged on the gun the first time then she tugged again,” Arringto said. “And that’s when I told her, ‘Let me unloosen my belt because it’s tight.’”

He said that the officer pulled even harder and that’s when the gun went off. The bullet hit him in the upper thigh.

“My hands were on top of the truck,” Arrington said. “So when the gun went off, I kept my hands on top of the truck because I didn’t want no one else thinking it was me.”

According to JSO, they were told about the gun during the stop and Arrington cooperated without any struggle.

JSO released a memorandum on Dec. 18 detailing how officers should deal with someone carrying a concealed weapon. In that memorandum, it said officers “should not seize a firearm from someone lawfully carrying it.”

Arrington’s attorney acknowledged this update to JSO’s policy but argued that it is not enough to prevent something like this from happening again.

“The issue is this female officer who for whatever reason chose to continue to tug at Mr. Arrington’s waistband and cause his firearm to go off,” Williams said. “We don’t believe that the gun malfunctioned.”

Arrington’s attorney has concerns about the lack of transparency surrounding this incident. They are particularly calling on JSO to release the body camera footage of this incident. Action News Jax has also requested that footage.

More at link

quote:

Originally posted by TRIO:
Did Diaz let his guard down? I always have my hands visible as an officer approaches my car. Sad that he was killed while trying to help the homeless man.

Found this to be an odd comment: "The vest was armed.." Also, why investigate how the weapons were acquired. Unless I missed it, the article didn't mention the man having priors that would prevent gun ownership.

It’s a long article, but somewhere in there it said he had a prior for marijuana possession in GA. The reporter probably meant armored not armed. I believe it had Level III plates.

Diaz was trying to help the guy for an hour. He actually called the guys insurance company to see if they could reinstate the guy’s policy. He left behind a wife and four kids.

quote:

Originally posted by snidera:
There's nothing to balance.

There's a big difference between what happened in that article & disarming someone who is legally carrying a concealed firearm and has notified the officer (and the officer likely already knew that). The difference is intent…

How does an officer know what a person’s intent is? I suspect Deputy Diaz didn’t believe the guy he was trying to help for over an hour was intent on shooting him.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

quote:

Originally posted by snidera:
There's nothing to balance.

There's a big difference between what happened in that article & disarming someone who is legally carrying a concealed firearm and has notified the officer (and the officer likely already knew that). The difference is intent…

How does an officer know what a person’s intent is? I suspect Deputy Diaz didn’t believe the guy he was trying to help for over an hour was intent on shooting him.

Yep. Intent can actually happen pretty quick at times…

Told the tale a time ot two about getting disarmed roadside in the middle of the night some 20 odd years ago. I was worried when he took the gun from my holster, but down right terrified as he tried to unload it, because he had no idea what he was doing or how the gun worked. (compact 1911) I had to talk him through it, hoping he wouldn't accidentally let a round go in the process. I was less worried about him hitting me, more worried about him shooting my car, or his partner unloading on me at the sound of gunfire. (she was behind the passenger's door with her gun drawn)

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

quote:

Originally posted by snidera:
There's nothing to balance.

There's a big difference between what happened in that article & disarming someone who is legally carrying a concealed firearm and has notified the officer (and the officer likely already knew that). The difference is intent…

How does an officer know what a person’s intent is? I suspect Deputy Diaz didn’t believe the guy he was trying to help for over an hour was intent on shooting him.

Stop being all stompy footed.

Another example of this was Trooper Cameron Ponder. Trooper Ponder was murdered for stopping on an assist motorist. And was fatally shot while trying to find a hotel room for his killer.

A citizen with a CC permit rates high on the list for being lawful. I don’t see how some cops don’t realize that.

The one article mentioned 7 times lower rate of criminal activity than the average LEO. Not saying that’s true, but I also think any gun should be left alone.

I cannot find any articles saying the gentleman had a license; however, licensing is not required to carry a concealed weapon in Florida.

Stripping the officer of duty is a good first step, but let's see what the investigation reveals. Hopefully, this leads to some serious changes in how officers handle concealed carry situations.

I am a Florida resident and I have a CCW, mainly becuase when buying from a FFL it waives the 3 day wait. I have been pulled over since obtaining it and gave it to the officer along with my driver license and they didn’t even ask if I had a gun in the car with me.

In my 35 years of driving I’ve never been asked to exit the car.

JSO victim should get paid handsomely and the officer that shot him should be fired.