In Ohio, we can't use bottleneck cartridges.
I use a .450 Bushmaster upper on my AR15 with Hornady 250gr FTX ammo.
Recoils about like a 20 gauge shotgun, and plenty of range for hunting in the woods.

I took several hogs with a buddy's .450 Bushmaster AR a few years ago. It's a nice thumper, and a great option for areas with straight-walled cartridge limits.

Several companies even offer bolt action hunting rifles in .450 Bushmaster now.

I'm not sure what to make of this thread and the posters. Could be a bunch of prima donnas who want to dictate what is "correct" in their view. What ever happened to the good old American "run what you got." Oh, and I've got one of the hated .30-378s, and I wouldn't hesitate for an instant to use it on bambi. Those big solid copper 200 grain slugs moving at 3598 fps probably wouldn't even begin to expand or ruin much meat.

Does anyone here handload? Its real easy to put together a loading that comes pretty close to a .30-30. So there's no reason to talk down bigger rifles. Keep in mind that about any gun can be loaded up or down to a suitable level, Many even first time deer hunters come from families that load up their own. But the those folks aren't going to a class and asking what to use. They've spent their lives listening to dad and grandpa and uncles talk about it. Its been beaten into them.

Somebody made fun of a .45-70. You know, the old U S service cartdrige. Check its statistics some time. I know it recoils a little. But its numbers are in the range of the "favored" calibers. No need to purchase a new gun if you've got an old one. Just spend the money on ammo and shoot it up.

I went 30-06 as it will do anything you need it to for any game and you can find it anywhere in the US. General store, wallyworld, anywhere.

I use a Savage 7mm-08 bolt action and it drops those whitetail deer here in PA with one shot.

.22 L.r. , .357 mag , scoped .243 win. , .35 Remington. Scoped .444 , .45-79 scoped. And a .20 gauge.

Why ?
Because that's how much it takes and no more.

You go deer hunting with a .22LR, bendable?

quote:

So, my question for you hunters

I saw the mention of deer, in the first paragraph ,
But was addressing the mention of hunters ( in general)
In the second paragraph.


Unless the deer are tiny

.22 rimfire is illegal in PA I think. I've used a .30-06, 7mm Mag, and a .416 Rigby. Now I use a .243.

quote:

Originally posted by rburg:
I'm not sure what to make of this thread and the posters. Could be a bunch of prima donnas who want to dictate what is "correct" in their view. What ever happened to the good old American "run what you got." Oh, and I've got one of the hated .30-378s, and I wouldn't hesitate for an instant to use it on bambi. Those big solid copper 200 grain slugs moving at 3598 fps probably wouldn't even begin to expand or ruin much meat.

Does anyone here handload? Its real easy to put together a loading that comes pretty close to a .30-30. So there's no reason to talk down bigger rifles. Keep in mind that about any gun can be loaded up or down to a suitable level, Many even first time deer hunters come from families that load up their own. But the those folks aren't going to a class and asking what to use. They've spent their lives listening to dad and grandpa and uncles talk about it. Its been beaten into them.

Somebody made fun of a .45-70. You know, the old U S service cartdrige. Check its statistics some time. I know it recoils a little. But its numbers are in the range of the "favored" calibers. No need to purchase a new gun if you've got an old one. Just spend the money on ammo and shoot it up.

I handload. Killed my moose, caribou, many elk and many deer all with loads from my 338, 30-06, 300 Weatherby, the list goes on....

quote:

Originally posted by LimaCharlie:
I had a new shooter/new hunter show up with a new rifle he had just purchased from a big box store for our club's sight-in service. It was a 26" Savage 110 .338 Lapua with a NightForce scope. He wanted it sighted in for 100 yards to hunt small whitetail deer in the Oregon Coast Range.

Customers...can't live without 'em...but I'd love to try.

I think we may have had your guy's somewhat wealthier cousin show up in our store. Our guy transferred in an AI AX series in .338LM from Europtic, but from us he wanted the cheapest scope we had because in his words, he "spent his budget and then some all on the gun. There ain't no more money, bra". Evidently he just wanted something so he could go out and just shoot the thing. He wound up buying a closeout 3-9x40 Buckmaster for under $100. To his credit however, he did ultimately put on a far better optic a few months later (a S&B 27x with a Spuhr 30MOA mount, though another shop did the mounting on that one). Brought it in to show us; it's an impressive looking setup I must say and no, he was never planning on only shooting out to a measly 100 yds or so.

We had another fellow do something similar with his 6.5CR T3x Tactical that we sold him. The first of that model rifle that we ever sold if I recall correctly. He bought a cheapo Vortex Diamondback 3-9 and we even had to coax him into spending as much as he did for the optic, because he originally fixated on a $75 Simmons instead. He initially couldn't understand why the bottom of the barrel Simmons wasn't up to the job, but we finally convinced him that a rimfire scope wasn't the best option for a rifle that accurately could shoot out beyond 1300m. But he still wouldn't spring for anything more powerful than a 9x. Oh well. Never heard back from again, but I got the sneaking impression that he's one of those guy who liked the idea of owning the gun as opposed to buying it to actually shoot the damn thing.

quote:

Originally posted by monoblok:
I got the sneaking impression that he's one of those guy who liked the idea of owning the gun as opposed to buying it to actually shoot the damn thing.

Some years ago it dawned on me that there are two basic types of people who acquire firearms: the gun owners and the shooters.

Gun owners are more interested in just having guns rather than making any practical use of them, except, sometimes, in theory. They may not have the opportunity to shoot much for very many reasons ranging from the expense to lack of facilities. Even when someone buys a gun that’s best suited for hunting, they may have vague notions of feeding themselves in a end of the world crisis, but in the here and now they lack the opportunity or knowledge, or just don’t want to deal with what hunting involves. Gun owners tend to obsess over the details of their guns and often are highly protective of them and keep them in pristine condition. Often, too, they’re just collectors even if it’s only to acquire different models of current guns.

The reason I know all that about “gun owners” is because that’s what I was at one time—and still am to a degree (albeit much less than before).

Shooters, on the other hand, have the ability and desire to shoot more than they do in acquiring a large number of different guns, and they don’t mind using them as hard as they need to. In this day and age, unfortunately, shooters are much rarer than gun owners because of the lack of opportunity to shoot in many areas. Even I who has exclusive access to a 200 yard range that I can (usually) use any time I want have very little access to anything longer. The 600+ yard public range that’s about an hour drive from me just reduced its firing points by half because someone fired out of the range boundaries and hit some landfill equipment. I’m hoping that our local R&G club range that’s supposed to go to 600 yards will be operational by fall, but that depends on volunteer labor, so ….

Some people are shooters and gun owners (by my definitions), and to different degrees of both. I’m getting rid of guns I never use these days and I shoot frequently, but getting a new 6.5 rifle and good scope for it was more to scratch a gun owner itch than for use as a shooter.

It doesn’t surprise me, therefore, that people will buy the sorts of combinations of rifles and scopes you described.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sigfreund,

30-30
270
243,. 1st rifle I purchased for hunting and it has killed more deer than the rest, I use a 270,now and my kids, brothers and friends use the 243 when they get a chance to come along

when I was deciding what caliber to get I watched what cartridges were available at the local sporting good and hardware stores, also the convenient store/post office/hardware store in Perdue Hill, Al and you can always find 243 available -- close 2nd were 270, 30-06 and 308

if I had to pick just one (thank goodness I don't, Merica… hell yeah)it would be the Savage110 in 243

quote:

Originally posted by monoblok:
I got the sneaking impression that he's one of those guy who liked the idea of owning the gun as opposed to buying it to actually shoot the damn thing.

Such discussions occur regularly in the Mason's Rifle Room here on SF. Sometimes it takes a few questions to -- and responses from -- the OP to determine which way a thread is headed.

I switched from 30.06 to 7mm-08 after a shoulder injury. Never switched back.

The math (as I believe makes sense):

If the bullet is 100gr. or more and its velocity gives it =/> 1000 ft/lbs at max range, then it's a good deer rifle.

+/- undetermined personal preferences.

Doesn't require 100+ grain bullets. There are a number of good deer calibers with sub-100 grain bullets, with .243 and .223 being probably the most common examples.

Member jljones once observed here that we shouldn’t choose a cartridge based on what it’s best to miss with, and I’ll expand on that a bit.

Long ago the writer Massad Ayoob pointed out that if we think we’ll need something like ammunition in a crisis or other shortage, we should have all we’ll need before the shortage occurs. In other words, we shouldn’t pick a gun on the basis of what ammunition we think will be easiest to find when supplies dry up. And of course as has often been reported, very frequently odd calibers are more likely to disappear from the shelves last during a shortage. It’s only in normal times that the 30-06, 308, and 223 loads are more plentiful.*

* Are there exceptions to that flat generalization? Of course. Are they common enough to rely on? Not if we have any sense.

And for hunters as compared with competitors and other high volume shooters, it should be cheap and easy (relatively, anyway) to lay in several hunting years’ supply of 257 Roberts, 300 Savage, or 35 Whelen, so why wouldn’t we do that as we would with more common loads rather than hope we’ll find it on the shelves during the next inevitable ammunition shortage? In fact, I would bet a nickel that it’s more likely to be the guy with a 270 Winchester rifle who walks into a store during the next crisis and says, “What‽ Where’s all the ammo?” than the guy with a 270 Weatherby.

Added: As a final question, I am always curious about the, “You can find the .XYZ everywhere,” justification for a particular cartridge. Does that mean if I have a 30-06 I can go into any Walmart and pick up a box of Barnes 150 grain TTSX if that’s my preferred load? Or does it just mean that people who offer that advice don’t really understand—or at least care about—the major differences among different loads? I.e., they’re just as happy with a box loaded with 150 grain round nose bullets as they would be with 178 grain ELD-X?

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
If you're trying to keep it simple, .243, .308, and .30-06 seem to be the "big three" American hunting calibers. (At least as far as bolt action rifles go.)

Great choices. I would add 270 Win. All of them are pretty flat shooting rounds in the 50 to 250 yard range and are easy to find in the store. Also the fact these have been around a long time it would be easy to find a good used rifle. Hate to see Mom and Pop spending a lot of money for a new rifle to find the child looses interest in it when they turn 16 with a drivers license and girls get interesting. They may even get to hunt with Grandpa's or Dad's old rifle to start.

*snipped*

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
Added: As a final question, I am always curious about the, “You can find the .XYZ everywhere,” justification for a particular cartridge. Does that mean if I have a 30-06 I can go into any Walmart and pick up a box of Barnes 150 grain TTSX if that’s my preferred load? Or does it just mean that people who offer that advice don’t really understand—or at least care about—the major differences among different loads? I.e., they’re just as happy with a box loaded with 150 grain round nose bullets as they would be with 178 grain ELD-X?

I was often frustrated with my former hunting partner when I'd ask him which of the (three or so) different ammo types he was packing he shot the last animal with and he'd reply "I don't know". Back then he was using a K98 Mauser with a $30 scope. On rainy days he'd put a plastic bag over said scope if he decided to be careful about it.

Dude has more dead stuff trophies than anyone I've ever met.

Yep, mighty frustrated.