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Study finds ancient trees help forests stay alive by passing on their genetic code experience Login/Join 
Lead slingin'
Parrot Head
Picture of Modern Day Savage
posted February 19, 2022 03:29 AM
[Note: Photos and hyperlinks found at linked website article.]

============

Ancient trees that make up just 1% of those worldwide help to keep forests alive by passing down golden genes to deal with change, study finds

By Sam Tonkin For Mailonline
14:07 EST 04 Feb 2022 , updated 14:30 EST 04 Feb 2022

• Ancient trees could be the key to life for forests all over the world, study finds

• Certain old an ancient trees with incredible lifespans pass down golden genes

• Help sustain nearby trees by passing down experience in dealing with change

• This enables forests to thrive for thousands of years and stops them dying out



They may make up just one per cent of the world's tree species, but as it turns out a rare type of ancient tree could be the key to life for forests all over the world.

That's because a new study suggests that old and ancient trees — which are often more than 10 to 20 times older than the average — help to sustain the trees around them by passing down a hardiness and experience in dealing with change.

These golden genes radically change the genetic diversity and health of the surrounding trees which arrive later on, researchers say, which helps to stop forests dying out and allows them to thrive for thousands of years.

The UK has more ancient trees than many other European countries, with more than 180,000 recorded to date, and some of the oldest living trees are in the US.

The world's oldest tree can be found in the Fishlake National Forest in Utah, a Quaking Aspen that has been alive for about 80,000 years.

To be classified as ancient it depends on the species — for beech this is from 225 years old, oaks from 400 years and yew 900 years.

Thanks to their genes, these outliers of the tree world weather whatever life throws at them, until one day their luck runs out.

However, according to research by The Morton Arboretum's Center for Tree Science in Illinois, the longer they do live, the greater the chance they might pass on these vital genes to a new generation.

'We examined the demographic patterns that emerge from old-growth forests over thousands of years, and a very small proportion of trees emerge as life-history "lottery winners" that reach far higher ages that bridge environmental cycles that span centuries,' said, botanist Chuck Cannon, from the Morton Arboretum.

'In our models, these rare, ancient trees prove to be vital to a forest's long-term adaptive capacity, substantially broadening the temporal span of the population's overall genetic diversity.'

The researchers used models extrapolated from several previous studies to see how many trees make it beyond the usual boundaries of tree old age.

They then analysed what sort of effect these ancient trees had on the rest of the forest around them.

In some cases, thousands of years of experience can be passed on to the rest of the trees nearby, including younger ones as new seeds are planted.

But it's not just the genetic and biological diversity of ancient trees that helps them assist the flora around them, they also provide shelter for endangered species and are better at soaking up carbon than younger trees, the experts found.

Through their findings, however, they warned how old an ancient tress are now becoming less common because of climate change and deforestation across the globe.

Mortality rates for trees are on the increase across all kinds of woodland.

'As the climate changes, it is likely that mortality rates in trees will increase, and it will become increasingly difficult for ancient trees to emerge in forests,' said Cannon.

'Once you cut down old and ancient trees, we lose the genetic and physiological legacy that they contain forever, as well as the unique habitat for nature conservation.'

The researchers compared the killing off of ancient trees to animal species going extinct — once they're gone they're not coming back.

'This study recalls the urgent need for a global strategy to conserve biodiversity, not only by preserving intact forests, but in particular the small remnant of a few ancient trees that have survived in managed forest landscapes,' said ecologist Gianluca Piovesan from Tuscia University in Italy.

The research has been published in the journal Nature Plants.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

WHAT MAKES A TREE ANCIENT?

The Woodland Trust has several categories for different trees based on their importance and age.

The most esteemed is 'ancient trees' which, according to the organisation, relies on three thing.

This includes:

• In the third or final stage of its life (this stage can go on for decades or centuries)

• Old relative to others of the same species

• Interesting biologically, aesthetically or culturally because of its great age


Other signs of an ancient tree include:

• Crown that is reduced in size and height

• Large girth in comparison to other trees of the same species

• Hollow trunk

• Stag-headed appearance

• Cavities on trunk and branches, running sap or pools of water forming in hollows

• Rougher or more creviced bark


What is the difference between an ancient tree and a veteran tree?


Ancient trees are veteran trees, but not all veteran trees are old enough to be ancient.

Veteran trees have developed some of the features found on ancient trees.

However, veteran trees are usually only in their second or mature stage of life.

Although veteran trees aren’t as old or complex as ancient trees, they still provide holes, cavities and crevices which are especially important for wildlife.

Source: Wildlife Trust
 
Posts: 7324 | Location: the Centennial state | Registered: August 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Ice Cream Man
posted February 19, 2022 06:00 AMHide Post
Inanely written drivel…

“Old trees have produced more seeds, over the years, than younger trees, if not sterile”
 
Posts: 6068 | Location: Republic of Ice Cream, Low Country, SC. | Registered: May 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Seeker of Clarity
Picture of r0gue
posted February 19, 2022 06:23 AMHide Post
Nonsense.




 
Posts: 11495 | Registered: August 02, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
paradox in a box
Picture of frayedends
posted February 19, 2022 06:58 AMHide Post
I’m not sure what is drivel or nonsense about old trees passing on good genes. That’s simple evolution. But then the new trees will have the genes to pass on. So maybe the drivel is the idea that we lose the good genes if we lose the old trees.

I digress but There’s actually interesting science showing trees “communicate” through the fun as in the soil.




These go to eleven.
 
Posts: 12605 | Location: Westminster, MA | Registered: November 14, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Don't Panic
Picture of joel9507
posted February 19, 2022 07:15 AMHide Post
The article's breathless prose is amusing...
quote:
the longer they do live, the greater the chance they might pass on these vital genes to a new generation.

Seeds every year + more years = more seeds....
quote:
are better at soaking up carbon

Think that's called 'photosynthesis' ....
quote:
• Old relative to others of the same species

Let me look up the term 'ancient'......
 
Posts: 15244 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: October 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Blume9mm
posted February 19, 2022 07:25 AMHide Post
I guess that means us ancient guys should still be.....


My Native American Name:
"Runs with Scissors"
 
Posts: 4441 | Location: Greenville, SC | Registered: January 30, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Just Hanging Around
posted February 19, 2022 07:38 AMHide Post
Those scientists must have watched Avatar.
 
Posts: 3295 | Location: NE Kansas | Registered: February 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Banned
posted February 19, 2022 08:14 AMHide Post
The Quaking Aspen has 80,000 growth rings?

Who wants to look up core sampling it and the team counted them? Cause the journalist didn't.

I didn't think we could go back that far with ice samples, either, but there may be good reason for that.

What I'm reading in those excerpts are "the earth is so old you can't tell me different" yet the proofs aren't there.

I believe we pass legislation that way now. I remember a President who said, "trust but verify" yet many of these articles have no verification, ie a reproducible method of testing to obtain an answer. IE, Science.

I find the "billions and billions of years old" crowd just depends on other believers to establish they are right. Flat earthers and racists do the same.

The older I get, the less some of this "science" is actually settled. Applied physics is science, anthropolgy is a belief system.

Not to ignore that the Big Bang is now just a sitcom title, the theory hasn't survived scientific scrutiny for decades. Or, it's out of fashion. Take your pick. "Global Warming" is another, I'm so old I remember "The Next Ice Age Is Now!" from 1975 on. Aren't we all supposed to be walking around hip deep by now in the rising seas? Or is it like the Russians vs Ukraine, that is always off in the future. Tomorrow never seems to get here the way some claim it. But the political manipulation never stops - and "science" these days is rife with it.
 
Posts: 613 | Registered: December 14, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted February 19, 2022 08:30 AMHide Post
Those "researchers" were smoking some trees for sure. I put 0 stock in that "study." For one, if the trees "passed down" their DNA then why would it be lost if the oldest tree dies? Does that passed down DNA disappear all of a sudden? Are the younger trees too stupid to reproduce it unless they're 80k years old? The whole thing sounds like a bunch of crap potheads thought up while staring at the sun.
 
Posts: 843 | Location: Southern NH | Registered: October 11, 2020Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie
Picture of Balzé Halzé
posted February 19, 2022 08:37 AMHide Post
The article lost me at Climate change.


~Alan

Acta Non Verba
NRA Life Member (Patron)
God, Family, Guns, Country

Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan

 
Posts: 31202 | Location: Elv. 7,000 feet, Utah | Registered: October 29, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Left-Handed,
NOT Left-Winged!
posted February 19, 2022 08:43 AMHide Post
The author is an utter moron.

A tree can not "pass its experience" down to other tress around them.

The DNA of the tree is the same when it is ancient as it was when it was a seed. When it makes more seeds it will pass that DNA (along with DNA from other trees from cross pollination) to future trees. How many seeds is that over a lifetime? Millions?

"Experience" does not get encoded into DNA to get passed down, only mutations caused by environment and random chance, but DNA is very very good about correcting replication errors so mutations are actually rare, but occur just enough to allow for natural selection.

The tree dying does not cause a loss of genetic code, it is present in all the trees that grew from its seeds. The only way to lose that is to kill the entire forest.

Sorry, but this is pure emotional appeal by environmentalist morons. They have so much "science" wrong it is laughable.
 
Posts: 5055 | Location: Indiana | Registered: December 28, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
So let it be written,
so let it be done...
Picture of Dzozer
posted February 19, 2022 08:55 AMHide Post
Hoom Hroom - They are Ents going tree-ish, as you might say. Most of the trees are just trees, of course; but many are half awake. Some are quite wide awake, and a few are, well, ah, well getting Entish. That is going on all the time.



'veritas non verba magistri'
 
Posts: 4031 | Location: The Prairie | Registered: April 28, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted February 19, 2022 09:24 AMHide Post
"Some of my kin look just like trees now, and need something great to rouse them; and they speak only in whispers. But some of my trees are limb-lithe, and many can talk to me."
 
Posts: 4979 | Location: NH | Registered: April 20, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
My other Sig
is a Steyr.
Picture of .38supersig
posted February 19, 2022 09:57 AMHide Post
Would'nt it be better if they cut them all down for a wind farm?

Germany gets its power from da vindmills.



 
Posts: 9596 | Location: Somewhere looking for ammo that nobody has at a place I haven't been to for a pistol I couldn't live without... | Registered: December 02, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Blume9mm
posted February 19, 2022 11:42 AMHide Post
but DNA changes as it is passed on... at least in humans... you don't get a 50/50 mix of mother and father and at some point in time you actually lose the DNA of a number of generations back. if we accept even some part of Darwin's theory then tree DNA has to change in some way also over time.


My Native American Name:
"Runs with Scissors"
 
Posts: 4441 | Location: Greenville, SC | Registered: January 30, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Ice Cream Man
posted February 20, 2022 04:17 PMHide Post
Signal and nutrient transfer between plants is a recent discovery, and the core behind co-crops. It’s not related to that article at all, but excellent.
 
Posts: 6068 | Location: Republic of Ice Cream, Low Country, SC. | Registered: May 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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