Do you have any constitutional rights?
I always thought the Constitution was for Citizens.
watching the news, there are illegal alien advocates telling viewers they have constitutional rights.

I had the same question, after seeing a video a Catholic organization shared, giving illegals tips on how to interact with ICE.

It appears the use of the word "person" in the Bill of Rights, as opposed to "citizen" is where the argument is made. I don't know what courts have ruled on this matter.

quote:

Originally posted by downtownv:
Do you have any constitutional rights?
I always thought the Constitution was for Citizens.
watching the news, there are illegal alien advocates telling viewers they have constitutional rights.

From my recollection and I’m not expert..due process only. And in this case I think the due process is to bus or fly their asses out of the country.

even if they are here illegally, if I recall they do have some constitutional rights

not sure which ones though, and their rights may be truncated by the nature of their crime

All the various ways I have input the question into the google machine return the answer that no: you don't have to be a citizen to be protected by aspects of the Bill of Rights. That's google though, which is known to be biased. If someone has access to Grok, that would be a good resource. Also, there should be precedent for something like this. Members smarter than myself should know this stuff, I assume.

It's certainly a relevant and timely topic.

OP might consider changing the subject line, so the thread gets more attention from the right people.

quote:

Originally posted by downtownv:

I always thought the Constitution was for Citizens.

That is not the law. You may think it should be, but it is not the law in the U.S.

Non-citizens have most of the rights citizens have. Exceptions include voting, and the ability to run for office.

Do you really think non-citizens should not have due process (could be locked up indefinitely without trial, for example), could be enslaved, no free speech rights, no right to be secure from illegal searches, no freedom of religion, just as a few examples?

quote:

Do you really think non-citizens should not have due process (could be locked up indefinitely without trial, for example), could be enslaved, no free speech rights, no right to be secure from illegal searches, no freedom of religion, just as a few examples?

Indeed. That wouldn't be very American.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:...

^^^
This is what the military taught me as to basic human rights, and then all the things covered in Articles of Geneva Convention.

For the most part, the "rights" expressed in the BoR are restrictions on what the Fed. Govt. can do, not expressly outlined rights as we like to think of them today.

There is another concept, that of "human rights," things like being able to protect one's physical person, children, "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," etc. that are intimately involved with these Govt. prohibitions. I suspect most would agree that all persons, citizens or not, have human rights, and that the Constitution, or any other document, cannot abrogate or expand these.

There is also the inconvenient fact that the Constitution was written to apply to British colonists who certainly were not citizens of the yet-to-be-founded government that it describes. OTOH, many US residents, slaves, Indians, etc. were denied many of these liberties for a considerable period so there is precedent.

From the reports, this first round of detainees are made up of those already convicted, or at least charged, with a crime.
At least some of the due process may have already happened.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

quote:

Originally posted by downtownv:

I always thought the Constitution was for Citizens.

That is not the law. You may think it should be, but it is not the law in the U.S.

Non-citizens have most of the rights citizens have. Exceptions include voting, and the ability to run for office.

Do you really think non-citizens should not have due process (could be locked up indefinitely without trial, for example), could be enslaved, no free speech rights, no right to be secure from illegal searches, no freedom of religion, just as a few examples?

The cornerstone of our nation (and arguably western civilization) is that the government does not grant rights, it protects them. Hence the idea that all men are created equal and, by virtue of that creation, endowed with unalienable rights.

quote:

Originally posted by downtownv:
Do you have any constitutional rights?
I always thought the Constitution was for Citizens.
watching the news, there are illegal alien advocates telling viewers they have constitutional rights.

If you apply that theory, then the concept of natural or God given rights is meaningless. You are saying that the government is the source of rights that can be granted and taken away at will. I don't like that.

quote:

The cornerstone of our nation (and arguably western civilization) is that the government does not grant rights, it protects them. Hence the idea that all men are created equal and, by virtue of that creation, endowed with unalienable rights.

Yes. Natural rights.
But some rights ARE conferred by government, by virtue of citizenship. These would include voting, or participation in said government.

quote:

Originally posted by downtownv:
Do you have any constitutional rights?
I always thought the Constitution was for Citizens.
watching the news, there are illegal alien advocates telling viewers they have constitutional rights.

AND ICE must show a judge-signed warrant... True?

The talking head news also reported that the illegals are afraid to go to the Job pick-up points, church, and schools. They are sheltering in place and not venturing outside of the home. Catholic Charities the largest assistance for them has not seen people in several days.

The MSM is trying everything to assist them in avoiding the ICE dragnet. Ironically, that's not what most taxpaying Americans feel...

Amazing how life still mimics movies, even 56 years later the story still relates...

All the left can yell is “separation of Church and State.” So, it must be OK when groups like Catholic Charities gets Government money for illegal immigration use?

https://www.usaspending.gov/aw...NON_2404TXRCMA_7590/

So much for Church and State…

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All the left can yell is “separation of Church and State.” So, it must be OK when groups like Catholic Charities gets Government money for illegal immigration use?

Absolutely not!
As a Catholic, this is horrible. The Lutherans do the same, and I know plenty of Lutherans who think it's horrible too.

quote:

AND ICE must show a judge-signed warrant... True?

Actually, no. You can learn more about admin warrants here.

https://www.fletc.gov/ice-admi...removal-warrants-mp3

quote:

Originally posted by downtownv:
Do you have any constitutional rights?
I always thought the Constitution was for Citizens.
watching the news, there are illegal alien advocates telling viewers they have constitutional rights.

While citizens have some rights not afforded to non-citizens (right to vote, run for federal office, etc), non-citizens have the same rights as everybody who happens to be on United States soil - right to due process, equal protection, freedom of speech and religion, legal representation, protection against unlawful searches, etc.

That is why it was a big deal that we were able to house prisoners of war from the Middle East in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. If they were jailed in the U.S., they would have those rights greanted by being physically on U.S. soil. In Gitmo, they were under the Geneva Convention.

quote:

Originally posted by downtownv:
Do you have any constitutional rights?
I always thought the Constitution was for Citizens.
watching the news, there are illegal alien advocates telling viewers they have constitutional rights.

If you think about the Constitution, when it was written and who wrote it, you can see how you're mistaken.

None of the framers of the Constitution were citizens. As a matter of fact they were immigrants...and illegal immigrants at that