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Originally posted by tanksoldier:

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I’m a bit mystified about the comment that defense attorneys regularly engage in criminal conspiracy, or that their conversations with their clients are monitored by police...

Lawyers smuggle things in to clients, they conspire to destroy evidence, they conspire to intimidate victims or witnesses. "tell Mary to reformat the hard drive before the cops get the computer", "Tell Billie Jean to change her story or I'll stop sending child support". "Here, you can use my cell phone to call your baby mamma, the cops won't know"... Happens all the time

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Admittedly, I’ve only had, extremely, limited experience in practicing criminal law - but, in general, “Thou shalt not breech confidentiality.”

The recordings can only be used if there is evidence of a crime being committed. The jail staff reviews them, so the deputy with the case only sees them if something comes up.

"All the time" sure seems like a stretch. As does jail staff being able to monitor and especially record privileged conversations. There's a compelling argument that the conversations are then not subject to privilege. Not considering that, it seems like an arrangement rife for abuse. Officer A wants to know what defendant said to his attorney so he gets Jailer B to provide him the recording or tell him what was said "off the record." Frankly, that seems as likely to "happen all the time" as what you described.

And before it is suggested that I'm anti-police, I've been one for nearly 17 years.

I was defense lawyer for 7 years right out of law school. I was with a private firm. I personally handled numerous Federal cases and was almost exclusively on felonies. I did some muni stuff, but not a whole lot. I was even second chair on a case at the Ohio Supreme Court twice.

Let me start by saying that Tanksoldier is using some serious hyperbole. I don’t want to be too combative here, but I’d say it’s best to dismiss his comments. If what he said was true, lawyers in his jurisdiction would be convicted of crimes, disbarred and change their ways quickly. The fact that they aren’t convicted and disbarred tells me all I need to know.

As for lawyers showing up and saying charge him or release him...yes and no. If we got the call, someone from our firm would show up. We had a pager that was rotated, so one of the five os us was “on call” (FNG had it a lot...which was me for quite a while). I would go the the ghetto in the middle of the night not infrequently to get money. Some of the bigger guys had us on retainer, but most just had cash stashed somewhere for an event like this. If they didn’t have a safe of cash stashed in a clean house somewhere, they weren’t a drug dealer, they were a corner boy. I was given the code to the safe on a couple of occasions because no one else had it but the client.

Here’s how it worked from my experience. I’d show up and tell them who I was there to see. I was polite and would chit chat. After a while you got to know the guys on the desk and they got to know you. Likewise I knew most of the Narcotics cops and they knew me. There wasn’t some adversarial shitty relationship. I got to know a couple DEA guys in the Cleveland area, but not like the Narcotics guys. They were pros and cockier than the local cops, but they were fine to deal with. I became genuine friends with a few of them. If you came charging in like a bull making demands it would only make things harder.

Once I was there we all knew the game and how it was going to play out. I never said, “charge my client or release him!!!!!” Rather I’d say, “ Hey (insert name here or Agent so and so if I didn’t know him/her), are you guys gonna release my guy or put a hold on him?”

Meaning, they can legally hold a person without charging them. If they would hold them, it was usually until the next day and then they’d release them. Prior to leaving the station if they were going to hold my client, I’d speak to my client and tell them they’d be released tomorrow, stfu and swing by my office when you get out. I would never discuss the case on their turf. Once I had a chance to talk to my client at the office we’d decide what to do next. Sometimes we’d tell them nope, we’re not talking. Other times we’d set up a very controlled interview and yet other times we’d look to make a deal.

Also, I am surprised there is a jurisdiction that actually allows the recording of an attorney/client conversation.

So the TLDR is that in my experience, what TV is missing is how friendly the whole thing is. I practiced in Cleveland, so not a big city, but not a small one either and most of us all knew each other. In the movies they make is seem like they don’t all know each other and it’s so adversarial. Maybe some attorneys are just dicks? But in my experience, we’d talk about the Browns while I waited and how each other was doing.

In Colorado there are two statutes that apply to lawyer visits in a jail.

We had a defense attorney attempt to sue when we denied him access at 2:00 AM to a DUI female who had not asked for him. He tried to wrangle a dropping of charges for a dropping of the suit. We had a good laugh at that. He went away.

Anyway legal visits are sacred as is legal mail (which is often abused) and we always used a non-audio monitored room, though there were cameras for safety and security.

CO Rev Stat § 16-3-404 (2018)
(1) All peace officers or persons having in custody any person committed, imprisoned, or arrested for any alleged cause shall forthwith admit any attorney-at-law in this state, upon the demand of the prisoner or of a friend, relative, spouse, or attorney of the prisoner, to see and consult the person so imprisoned, alone and in private, at the jail or other place of custody, if such person so imprisoned expressly consents to see or to consult with the attorney.

(2) Any peace officer or person violating the duty imposed by this section or section 16-3-403 shall forfeit and pay not less than one hundred dollars nor more than one thousand dollars to the person imprisoned or to his attorney for the benefit of the person imprisoned, to be recovered in any court of competent jurisdiction.

CO Rev Stat § 18-8-403 (2018)
(1) A public servant, while acting or purporting to act in an official capacity or taking advantage of such actual or purported capacity, commits official oppression if, with actual knowledge that his conduct is illegal, he:

(a) Subjects another to arrest, detention, search, seizure, mistreatment, dispossession, assessment, or lien; or

(b) Has legal authority and jurisdiction of any person legally restrained of his liberty and denies the person restrained the reasonable opportunity to consult in private with a licensed attorney-at-law , if there is no danger of imminent escape and the person in custody expresses a desire to consult with such attorney.

(2) Official oppression is a class 2 misdemeanor.

Around here, most defendants are busy trying to talk their way out of it at the station. Then they get processed and transferred to the county jail. Eventually a magistrate sets bail and assigns counsel if they do not have it. Many only see their attorney just before the preliminary exam date or possibly a jail visit right before. It happens fairly quickly.

Not very many actually retain counsel and have the person available. If they do not ask for their attorney, it is unlikely the police will allow a visit before being booked. Once at the county jail I've never had an issue with a professional visit.

If someone has their attorney retained beforehand, odds are they know to assert their right to remain silent, request their attorney, and would have been clearly informed to say nothing until whatever time their attorney is able to make it. There would be no interview. The attorney would ask if their client was free to leave or being held. By that point they would know if they have enough to charge or if they would need longer than their hold time to do so. They can certainly hold.

My family law attorney who represented me in my child supprt case told me about his ex-law firm partner being arrested. The office was a converted house. What was the family room was the reception area and waiting room. Behind that was 4 offices, 2 on each side, a kitchen and a bathroom. The right side offices were seperated by the bathroom and the left was seperated by the kitchen. They were a 3 man law firm with a paralegal and a secretary. So a small firm.

My attorner practices family law, another practiced criminal law and the third I don't remember. The story he told me was two deputies came to the office for something, I don't remember what now, walked back to the criminal law attorney's office and caught him snorting cocaine off of his desk with a pile of cocaine in plain sight on hiss desk. BUSTED.

My attorney told me there were no outward apperances of any drug issues and it came as a complete shock to him and the staff.