I know this discussion comes up from time to time here, and I've read them several times with a little bit of interest. But not enough to go shopping. I've done some searching tonight and haven't found the recent threads that I recall, so I'm asking for a current answer again, because I'm now ready to buy, for her, myself, and just about everyone I care deeply for.

A very close friend was leaving a holiday party about midnight last night and someone attempted to carjack her. She was unlocking the car, heard someone running towards her and she made it in and closed the door, but not with enough time to lock the door. He got the door opened and attacked her. She fought him and took 7 stab wounds in the process. Miraculously, she wore him out enough that he just walked off. I'm told she did some damage with her heeled boots. She then walked back in the house and quickly collapsed. By the grace of God, shes going to be just fine. None of the wounds hit vital organs, but he did knick the sac that houses one of her lungs. So they have a tube in there draining that, and they're just monitoring for infection at this point. The other wounds were stitched up and I'm told she's gonna be just fine. As you can imagine, i'm just overwhelmed with the thought of how it could have ended up. I feel like I should buy her a BAD MOFO wallet!

I have no doubt at this point that she'll get a carry license, but when I think about what could have happened, well you can imagine.

Carrying a firearm aside, I'm now (even more) of the opinion that we could all benefit from a small can of spray sitting in the cup holder near the shifter in the truck, all the time. So I'm ready to buy her one for each of her cars, each of mine, and for a a few other people as well. So please, an Amazon link would be great, because I'm ready so get some shipped.

The rest of the story is that this guy killed 4 people before hand and made it through a shootout (and escaped) with the cops before he found her. Luckily they caught him early this morning and he's off the streets.

We read about this type of situation pretty regular, but gosh, when it happens to someone you love, and becomes 'real', it's a different deal. I've been overwhelmed with emotion all day.

Thanks in advance for any product advice.

Pretty much every thread comes down to LEOs (aka people who at minimum have been sprayed with it to be qualified to carry it) recommending Fox Labs, Sabre Red, and Vexor. A few months back a guy followed my lady friend to her apartment and her lack of self-defense tools scared her. She asked me to get her “something”

I clicked on Amazon with 3 search criteria:

It must be Fox Labs, Sabre Red, or Vexor

Must be a size that she would have with her

Must sell an inert training unit as I wanted her to practice and gain confidence

This is the kit I purchased for her

I had it shipped to my place. The next time she came over:

I explained to her that this is police and prison guard strength and it works well

I watched Sabre Red’s training video with her

We went to my garage where I hung the included target and she practiced with the inert training unit until it was empty

I connected it to a QD (she travels so needs to be removable) on her keychain. She already had the good habit of having her keys in hand while walking through parking lots so this is a good fit for her.

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Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity

DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer.

Thanks, TT. You absolutley hit every nail on the thread’s first response. Much appreciated.

Sabre Red or Defense Technologies has worked the best for us in applications.

Gel v. fog v. stream: Gel is slow to work. Fog contaminates everyone and everything in a country mile. Stream is more precise, though cross contamination will still happen.

Tips: Wind value is a thing. Think about which way the wind is blowing outside and if there are any fans blowing when you're inside. Also, don't just hose. OC needs air to maximize the suck. Over saturation can wash some of the suck off. Apply and evac.

Take a look at DPS as well. The shit they have is fucking horrible on the person who gets it. I was talking to a few guys at the local prison and apparently inmates beg and crawl to get out of the cell with this stuff.

With that said, they all hurt, a lot. I do prefer foam though. It takes a split second long to effect (as in that split second of, o I just got sprayed). Then it's instant pain. The foam expands up a little like shaving cream too and less chance of effecting the user.

wasp spray. directed stream.

Glad to hear she will survive and has you for a friend.

Practice spray

A training video of some value...
Criminal assault pre-incident indicators

Silent

Good info here: https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/181655.pdf

I’ve always read to use an alcohol based carrier. Never considered it to be a fire hazard though.

As far as training, do test sprays occasionally, and replace as needed. Make sure they get in the habit of having the spray in hand, not buried in a purse or pocket. Barriers are your friend, you have to be close enough to be in range, but try to put anything and everything between you and the aggressor. You need to be conscientious of any breezes/wind, and move around to be downwind.

We only get issued PETA approved spray (for dogs), and I’ve lost count on how many times I’ve had to use it. Knock on wood, it has always stopped the threat.

quote:

Originally posted by ASKSmith:

You need to be conscientious of any breezes/wind, and move around to be downwind.

I would prefer to be upwind.

My wife has been a victim of crime twice, once assaulted and once robbed at gunpoint. By far the number one thing to prevent it is situational awareness. As you can imagine my wife is always aware now of everything around her. Some situations can’t be avoided so both my wife and daughter (I keep some too) carry Sabre or Mace brand spray. I gave my daughter a larger bottle to keep by her apartment door. The third line of defense is they both have their carry permits and carry firearms.
My brother has been involved in martial arts for about 35 years and has owned three MA schools. Women can get training but unless it’s ongoing and they get good instructors that teach realistically it’s mostly useless. Most places that advertise self defense training for women teach things that do little in real life situations other than give the females a false sense of security. I’ve had friends tell me how their daughters/spouses can fight off attackers after taking a few hours of training. I can usually show them that they will not fare well in an actual confrontation where a male is not holding back and coming after them in full force. 99% of women (heck men need it too) need an equalizer. There are bad people looking to do bad things and we all need the upper hand when we get our backs to the wall.

quote:

Originally posted by f2:
wasp spray. directed stream.

I believe that is an internet myth, wasp spray works ok on wasps and not well on people. Also for the OP I’ve read that bear spray is not as effective on humans so don’t buy it unless it will be used on bears.

https://articles.extension.org...ute-for-pepper-spray

quote:

Originally posted by mrvmax:
Also for the OP I’ve read that bear spray is not as effective on humans so don’t buy it unless it will be used on bears.

Whoever wrote what you read clearly has never been hit with bear spray.

I can assure you that it renders you unable to open your eyes or breathe.

The only issue with it that I can see is that it only comes in large cans that are impractical to carry around.

quote:

Originally posted by mrvmax:
Also for the OP I’ve read that bear spray is not as effective on humans so don’t buy it unless it will be used on bears.

Bear spray will work more than well on humans lol. Unless the wind is just right, you're most likely going to get a large taste of it yourself and probably won't be able to go back in the car for a day or so.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:

quote:

Originally posted by mrvmax:
Also for the OP I’ve read that bear spray is not as effective on humans so don’t buy it unless it will be used on bears.

Whoever wrote what you read clearly has never been hit with bear spray.

I can assure you that it renders you unable to open your eyes or breathe.

The only issue with it that I can see is that it only comes in large cans that are impractical to carry around.

I don’t recall exactly where I read that but here are a few opinions on the subject. I’ve never experienced bear spray or the ones intended for humans so I don’t know. Their reasoning is that the human spray is stronger since our olfactory system is not as sensitive as bears.

https://www.selfdefenseninja.c...ay-whats-difference/


https://www.pepper-spray-store...nimal-vs-human-spray

quote:

Originally posted by f2:
wasp spray. directed stream.

If put a lighter in front of it, maybe.

Otherwise, no. That myth needs to die.

quote:

Originally posted by enidpd804:

quote:

Originally posted by f2:
wasp spray. directed stream.

If put a lighter in front of it, maybe.

Otherwise, no. That myth needs to die.

Thanks. Wasp/hornet spray is only effective in a confined area - like the interior of an automobile.

quote:

Originally posted by mrvmax:
I don’t recall exactly where I read that but here are a few opinions on the subject. I’ve never experienced bear spray or the ones intended for humans so I don’t know. Their reasoning is that the human spray is stronger since our olfactory system is not as sensitive as bears.

https://www.selfdefenseninja.c...ay-whats-difference/


https://www.pepper-spray-store...nimal-vs-human-spray

Interesting. The first link says human pepper spray is stronger. The second link starts off saying human spray is stronger, then says bear spray has 2% CRC and human spray only has 1.3% CRC.

Straight from SABRE FAQ page:

https://www.sabrered.com/peppe...ly-asked-questions-0


What are capsaicin & capsaicinoids?
Oleoresin capsicum is comprised of several different capsaicinoids. There are five major capsaicinoids responsible for providing the pungency or hotness of a pepper. Capsaicin is the strongest or most important of the five. Therefore, it is the percentage of the total capsaicinoids, not the OC percentage that is most important.

Civilian and law enforcement pepper sprays range from 0.18% to 1.33% Major Capsaicinoids.

Bear Sprays range from 1.0% to 2.0% major capsaicinoids.

I'm sorry to hear about your friend's injuries and the neighboring family that was lost.

quote:

By far the number one thing to prevent it is situational awareness.

Ultimately this is the answer. You can have all of the guns, sprays, and self defense training in the world, but if the bad guy gets the jump on you it's an uphill battle.

I used to drive this home with my significant other when she was in the restaurant business. Due to how she dressed she was limited to an ankle holster. A bad guy isn't going to wait while you dig out your weapon, and deploying it in the middle of a fight isn't going to happen either.

You have to be aware to buy time, you have to create distance to buy more time, and then you have to use that time to deploy your defenses if you're unable to escape.

Vexor is the strongest OC spray I've found to date at 15 million SHUs

http://www.zarc.com/c-24-vexor...fessional-spray.aspx