^^^^ +1

quote:

Originally posted by icom706:
Why need TF 34, when TF 77, especially Taffy 3 element, did just fine. A true epic in US Naval history as well as world naval history.

Easy to say from the cheap seats pal...

While it was valiant battle and victory for the US Navy history books, I'm sure the 1,583 US Sailors KIA & Missing would have preferred Halsey & TF34 stuck around and they wouldn't have had to sacrifice themselves to protect the beachhead.

Last Stand of the US Destroyers and Escorts - 3 would be sunk and 3 heavily damaged.




Escort Carrier USS St. Lo taking a Kamikaze hit before sinking



Escort Carrier USS Gambier Bay taking direct fire from Yamamoto (circled) before sinking

quote:

Originally posted by mrw:
Here is a good right up of what could have been the greatest Navel battleship slug feast since Jutland if Halsey had not “taken the bait” at the battle of Leyte gulf. Where is task force 34 the world wonders

This battle would have seen the Iowa and New Jersey toe to toe with YamamotoYamato .

Fixed it. Yamamoto was the IJN Admiral.

A couple of agreeables from the author: Japanese cruisers were quite formidable and good looking ships, very heavily tilted towards offensive warfare and Japanese Long Lance torpedos were deadly.

quote:

Originally posted by bendable:
do they have a log somewhere that states
what gun was fired , where and at what target?

can we read exactly how many times a particular gun was fired?

Each gun tube has a logbook. It records every round, date time,amount and lot number of powder. The logs were turned into Crane when the ship was decommed.

From what I have been able to find, 16” guns had a barrel life of around 1500 rounds due to wartime...meaning it was extended to keep the guns in war zones....normal use was less.

On one of my ships, we had a gun that had seawater flowing around the barrel as it fired to cool it and extend barrel life, but it was replaced at 1500 rounds. The entire gun was pulled at 3000 rounds and the entire mount returned to the yard for overhaul. This was on an automated gun.

I imagine that replacing the barrel on a 16” gun was a yard/dry dock event and didn’t occur often.

As an aside, we kept logbooks for machineguns for the same reasons...those were kept for 50 caliber M2HB guns and even smaller M240B (7.62 that replaced the M60)

quote:

USS KIDD . WW2 destroyer. Pacific theatre action. actually took a hit from a Japanese Kamakazi(?) aircraft. Now a museum ship resting in a floating cradle . Mississippi River, Baton Rouge, La. ....................drill sgt

My great Uncle James Takitch was on that ship. He had pieces of that Jap plane embedded in his hide. recently passed away. Fair winds and following seas Uncle Jim.

My Dad was on the USS Iowa during WWII. He is now 96 and still going strong. He says that when all of the 16 inch guns were fired at once, it would slide the ship sideways in the water. He also tells of a night when he was on deck when the 16 inch guns were firing, and he would turn his back to the guns as they were fired. In the morning he found that the concussion from the guns has split his P-coat on the seem from the hem to the collar. That's his story and he's sticking to it.
Rod

I thought Iowa Class were our only BBs that mounted 16" guns. Were there earlier boats with the 16"? Also, Yamato mounted 18" guns.

quote:

Originally posted by David Lee:
I thought Iowa Class were our only BBs that mounted 16" guns. Were there earlier boats with the 16"? Also, Yamato mounted 18" guns.

A number of other US Battleship classes (North Carolina, South Dakota, and Colorado Class) had 16" guns as well but they were slightly different than the Mark 7 16" guns on the Iowa class battleships.

quote:

Originally posted by David Lee:
I thought Iowa Class were our only BBs that mounted 16" guns. Were there earlier boats with the 16"? Also, Yamato mounted 18" guns.

According to this article, the 16" guns began to be used in the Colorado Class battleships (Colorado, Maryland, Washington, West Virginia) and continued through the South Dakota Class and North Carolina Class (South Dakota, Indiana, Montana, North Carolina, and Massachusetts). And, of course the Iowa Class. Earlier ships used 14" guns.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...adnought_battleships

flashguy

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
Bendable come visit Mobile and see the USS Alabama. Very impressive.

Or better yet! Come to Camden, NJ and see the USS NJ along the Delaware river, they could demo the guns across the river and target the beautiful city of brotherly Love, Philadelphia! Win-Win!

quote:

Originally posted by sig sailor:
My Dad was on the USS Iowa during WWII. He is now 96 and still going strong. He says that when all of the 16 inch guns were fired at once, it would slide the ship sideways in the water. He also tells of a night when he was on deck when the 16 inch guns were firing, and he would turn his back to the guns as they were fired. In the morning he found that the concussion from the guns has split his P-coat on the seem from the hem to the collar. That's his story and he's sticking to it.
Rod

Splitting the pea coat - I believe. We had to cut out and replace water-tight doors leading into the Department Head's quarters (under Turret 2, forward of the Wardroom) that got warped due to muzzle blast. To the point where they would not seal... Anywhere on the main deck is not a good place to be when shooting 16"

Sliding sideways - not. What looks like a side-ways wake is just the water being broiled up by the muzzle blasts. The ship doesn't move an inch or even heel from a broadside. Check out the wake of the Missouri below - no sudden shift...



The guns have a recoil slide of up to 48 inches and the shock is distributed evenly through the turret foundation and the hull structure. The mass of a 57,000 ton ship is just too great for the recoil of the guns to move it. Well, theoretically, a fraction of a millimeter.

But because of the expansive range of the overpressure (muzzle blast), a lot of the rapidly displaced air presses against the bulkheads and decks. Those structures that are not armored actually flex inwards just a bit, thus displacing air quickly inside the ship and causing loose items to fly around.

I love those big battle wagons.

If one served on a fighting ship in WWII, in would have been a great posting.

I've been on BB-60 (Alabama) a number of times and even spent the night on her in the bunks.

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
Bendable come visit Mobile and see the USS Alabama. Very impressive.

Or better yet! Come to Camden, NJ and see the USS NJ along the Delaware river, they could demo the guns across the river and target the beautiful city of brotherly Love, Philadelphia! Win-Win!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I would pay to watch that

quote:

Originally posted by Bassamatic:

quote:

Originally posted by flashguy:
I would like just once to be nearby when those big guns fired. Alas, I don't give it much hope.

flashguy

I imagine it would be nerve shattering.

We fired jeep mounted 105 Howitzers back in the day. When my turn came to be the rear observer (making sure no one was in the back-blast area) and standing right next to the gun, I actually didn't know if I was dead or alive when the dust cleared. This was nothing compared to the guns on that ship. Here is a pic of one.

That's a 105mm recoilless rifle, not a howitzer.

Link to original video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB4kdeDjz38




Link to original video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0D-ulUrMIo

Didn't the Missouri shoot up those aliens in Hawaii some years back?

Seriously...I liked that movie. The idea of a retired WW2 era battleship being tossed back into service made for a good story line.

My Dad was a plank owner on the USS Iowa in WWII. He served on her thru the war and was in Tokyo Bay in 1945 when the Japs signed on the line. So it is my favorite US ship. He served in turret one. The Iowa class was the only class to have the 16" 50 cal guns, not the shorter barrel lengths. As far as the ship moving sideways in the water, I don't think so. The Iowa class is around 58000 tons full load, is 883 feet long with a beam of 108 ft and a draft of 38 ft. When I asked my Dad about this when he was still alive he just chuckled and said you know how big a battleship is? If I am wrong on any of my figures feersum can set me straight.

Those analog fire control computers must have been about the most complicated machines ever built. I was amazed to hear about them on our tour of the Mighty Mo.
feersum dreadnought, thanks for your story!

My wife and I took the Missouri tour back in around '04 while in Hawaii. Cool ship to get to walk around on with all its history - while sitting next too, and looking over, the Arizona.

My step-brother spent a little time on the Missouri in the 80's early 90's.

I have a bunch of pics around here somewhere...

nice picture hbertmank. I've got one like it on our way into Portsmouth, England...

I'm far left. Note - me and the other book end were 6'8", middle and second from right were linemen on Navy football team. Guy at my elbow was short, but only by comparison.