I am a "lock them up and throw away the key" kind of guy who is fully supportive of law enforcement. My daughter dates a police officer, and I had the occasional professional collaboration with local and federal law enforcement before my retirement. I do think that law enforcement gets an enormous amount of unwarranted criticism. That said, I am also a realist. Not everybody who gets arrested is guilty. And not all actions by prosecutors are ethical. Some innocent men have spent decades in jail. One of the things that bugs me is the show business aspect of some law enforcement operations. Example - the arrest of Roger Stone, the elderly Trump associate. I believe Roger Stone lives alone. A dozen FBI Agents in full body armor with automatic weapons show up before dawn to make the arrest. I have seen drug houses raided with a smaller and less heavily armed raiding party. Stone was arrested and promptly released on bail. How is anyone that dangerous that warrants that level of a law enforcement response able to make bail in 10 minutes? If they are that dangerous, there should be no bail. And it's not just because Stone was a Trump associate. The same thing happened to Laurie Laughlin and her husband (and many of the others) involved with the college admissions scandal. Body Armor, automatic weapons, an arrest, and they make bail in no time. Don't get me wrong, arresting officers need to protect themselves, and certainly bring superior force to any situation. But does anyone really think that Aunt Becky is going to come out blasting away, rather than promptly calling her lawyer? To me this seems more like show business and also more intimidation and punishment before a conviction. Just my two cents. Any LEO want to set me straight if I am wrong?

You're talking about a different game.

Real police vs Federalis.

Real police can't even get automatic weapons and serious body armor out of their vehicles unless either somebody is shooting at them, or a threat analysis with several liability checks has been done and it's nearly unquestionable that such equipment may be needed.

Federalis...ain't real police. (Most of them)

Safety. You may have seen a big display on the news for that one arrest, but how do you know that agency/division/squad doesn't do the same thing for every similar arrest?

Add in high profile target with a lot to lose. Threat assessments may not appear to be what you'd think at first glance. High profile person may have more to lose than a gang member. Who is more inclined to violence in a given circumstance either against himself or others? Situation dependent...

And automatic weapons? Why because it appeared to be ARs? That's like the news saying every pistol is a Glock and every rifle an AK47...
Would you ever want to enter a house & arrest someone without body armor?

Media wankfest to try and make someone a name.

quote:

Originally posted by Voshterkoff:
Media wankfest to try and make someone a name.

Ding - Ding - Winner.

Same reason they do the public perp-walk.

Well that, and it's fun.

in the Roger Stone case, CNN was informed such that they were there during the raid. Total made-for-TV stuff.

The tactics you saw on TV are great for TV. A couple of detectives knocking on the door and arresting some old guy like a local police would do is not good enough for annual performance review for most feds.

quote:

Originally posted by Voshterkoff:
Media wankfest to try and make someone a name.

The filming of the arrest live leads me to believe this.

I agree with Fed161. And let's not turn this into a Fed bashing thread. I know many fed's that are just as much the Police as most Police. Don't forget that a substantial number of the fed's were local or state Police before they became fed's. A couple of years ago the FBI took down a bank robbery crew near my daughters home. Shot it out and killed at least one. I doubt the play Police would do that. But back to the original post. I think some of the things law enforcement does as evidenced by the Stone thing is strictly for public relations, to give their public image a boost. How is is that cnn was across the street from Stones house just prior to the raid? We all know the answer to that.

It's shameful, stupid, and FUBARed. Those officers and their commanders should be ashamed. Makes cop comedies halfway believable. Idiots all around.

Yeah, this won't turn into a bash thread...

I've got plenty to say about this, but I'm going to let my signature line do the talking.

quote:

Originally posted by az4783054:
Yeah, this won't turn into a bash thread...

That definitely was not my intent. Worked with several federal law enforcement agencies before I retired on fraud issues, fugitives where my agency had relevant information, and one case where a mentally ill person with a history of assaults had threatened a member of the President's family (not the current President). I have nothing but respect and admiration for almost all of them.

quote:

Originally posted by Fed161:

quote:

Originally posted by az4783054:
Yeah, this won't turn into a bash thread...

That definitely was not my intent. Worked with several federal law enforcement agencies before I retired on fraud issues, fugitives where my agency had relevant information, and one case where a mentally ill person with a history of assaults had threatened a member of the President's family (not the current President). I have nothing but respect and admiration for almost all of them.

It may not have been your intent but there's a few people here who will take the opportunity to be negative about anything concerning law enforcement, at any level.

quote:

Originally posted by az4783054:
It may not have been your intent but there's a few people here who will take the opportunity to be negative about anything concerning law enforcement, at any level.

https://sigforum.com/eve/forums...935/m/7040029334/p/1

Heres how it worked for me:
When I received a warrant, no matter what the crime was, there was a "worksheet" attached to it.
Lots of info there concerning the address, where the suspect worked, past history, the cars the suspect drives, who he or she ran with, etc. If it was deemed to be a high risk warrant, which was defined as a suspect known to be violent, a risk to the community, a known threat to cops or armed, I referred it to SWAT to serve. Otherwise, I just watched the places and cars named on the worksheet and tried to catch my suspect out and about, hopefully in his car. He would be stopped in the car and this gave me opportunity to search the car. Which often led to other charges.
Never did I call the media. And taking a news crew along on high risk warrants subjects them to danger. It just aint done. Ever. If you wanted some media coverage of the arrest, you let the media film the suspect being "perp walked" across the parking lot to the booking room. Thats a lot safer for everybody. And I never did that either.
Anything else is BS drama.

^^thats how we did it too Yoopersigs....simple easy and worked...thanksgiving is a great day to get folks who are good at ducking the cops...I had gotten several guys on thanksgiving, and a magistrate asked me to lay off until he was able to eat dinner with the family, then he came back in to get people situated...

quote:

Originally posted by az4783054:
It may not have been your intent but there's a few people here who will take the opportunity to be negative about anything concerning law enforcement, at any level.

And there are those who will defend them no matter what they do.

That's life.

If your comment is directed specifically to me, you have no idea what you're talking about. I had to arrest several officers and agents in 26+ years. It caused me a lot of grief from peers.

LEO should have the same rights to be considered innocent until proven guilty as anyone else. The public should not jump to conclusions until the investigation is concluded one way or the other. No one deserves to be judged solely in the court of public opinion, especially on incomplete video evidence which is so prevalent today.