walkinghorse's aviation terminology post brought up something I have been wondering about.

Just a curiosity…
I live about 6 or 7 miles from an airport as the crow flies. Small but apparently a fairly nice one, I can remember it has received awards for being the best small airport in Tennessee several years ago. You can take lessons or hire joy rides there.
I am ~east of the runway that runs roughly north and south.

Anyway...
On nice days, weather wise, mostly single engine planes can be seen near the airport practicing touch and go and circling around and etc. Sometimes they circle wide enough to fly over or near my house. Often… I hear them flying along and they cut the engine for several seconds, then restart, or maybe just cut to idle where I can’t hear them. It happens pretty often. Is this something commonly practiced or taught, or is it just someone playing or what?

Like I said, just wondering…

They are just cutting the power, not turning the engine off. Likely as part of their landing approach maneuver, beginning the decent, etc.

Even doing emergency practice for losing an engine, you always leave one running and pull it to idle.

Oversimplification here, you control altitude with power.

Add power to go up, reduce power to descend. You are probably hearing normal power adjustments.

We also train for engine failure. Power is reduced to idle (“zero thrust”) and a single engine airplane becomes, for training purposes, an un-powered glider. The throttle can always be opened to increase power if necessary, but the goal in this exercise is to land properly without the need for power.

There are events that include competition for the best power-off landings.

What V-tail and rhino said.

You might be able to listen to the Unicom frequency of that airport on your computer or phone with the LiveATC.com or LiveATC app.

If you had a scanner that would work too. Probably on 122.800 MHz

I’m just down in Decatur. I fly out of Pryor field.

Go out there and see if they have an instructor that will offer a discovery flight for you.

Thanks guys.

They just cruse by... Fairly low and slow usually, Buzzzzzzz... then all of a sudden it will go completely silent. Sometimes, very rarely, I can hear a bit of backfire/cackle on the seeming engine cut. Then several seconds later back to normal sounding buzzzzzzz again. I think it happens both outbound and inbound. Usually they are north of me headed east outbound and south of me headed back west toward the airport. I see them make a wide turn back, sometimes, sometimes they go out of sight and hearing for a couple minuits then come back by. I have watched them in the past from near the airport doing touch and goes, making big circles but usually not going out of sight towards the general direction of my place. Sometimes they circle the opposite direction.

I'll try to pay more attention, but I have to be outside to hear them usually.

By the way, I've never even been up in a plane. Not scared of them, just never had any reason to.

Power to idle is done quite a bit during training to simulate an engine failure with a glide to a landing.

It's generally a poor technique for a routine landing, but it's done a lot.

If the engine is popping and making noises, the pilot is abusing the engine, which also happens a lot. The airplane is flying fast enough at a low enough power setting that the propeller is driving the engine.

If you hear a power reduction and then it increases while the airplane if flying parallel to the runway, sometimes that's the application of carburetor heat, in which warm air is introduced into the airflow to the engine, to melt any ice that might form.

Power changes will be occuring roughly over the same spot of ground as it's the same location for most light airplanes, when they begin their descent. Airplanes fly opposite direction of landing, parallel to the runway, and when abeam the end fo the runway, make their power reduction. Typically when the pilot can look over his shoulder at a 45 degree angle back to the end of the runway, he or she makes a 90 degree turn, continuing the descent, and around 500' the pilot will begin the turn to line up with the runway, called the final approach. Most light airplanes have more or less the same performance and make these turns and changes and the same general location in respect to the runway, which is why you will keep hearing the same thing over your house.

quote:

Originally posted by cparktd:

By the way, I've never even been up in a plane. Not scared of them, just never had any reason to.

Don't do it. DO NOT DO IT!

If you're anything like me, you'll be hooked at the first taste. Kind of like the drug pusher in the schoolyard: "Here, kid. The first one's free."

I had my first "free taste" in August 1964, and I was hooked for life. Went back the next day for my first official lesson. Three months later I passed the Private Pilot checkride. Another three months and I was the owner of a BeechCraft Musketeer (earlier model of the one that Screaming Cockatoo flies). The following year I passed the Instrument Rating, and Commercial Pilot checkrides, then a couple years and I added Ground Instructor (Basic, Advanced, and Instrument) and Flight Instructor (Airplanes and Instrument).

Along the way I added multi-engine to my existing single-engine pilot certificate. My "swan song" was the ATP (Airline Transport Pilot) exam -- by the time I took that exam, I was too old to fly for the airlines, but I wanted to go out with a bang. I really, really, wanted to ace that exam with a perfect score (70 is passing). I studied my narrow ass off, studied some more, memorized all kinds of stuff (including the regs for flying with firearms), took the exam, and missed one stupid question that I knew the answer to. I must have clicked the mouse on the wrong multiple-choice answer, I knew the answer to the question about lighting on high-speed turnoffs from runway to taxiway. I knew the answer, I teach that stuff. That question cost me a perfect score, I wound up with 98.

So, a simple flight 55 years ago led to a lifetime of aviation addiction. My advice to you, resist with every ounce of will power that you have. Then, when you have failed to resist, give in and enjoy it.

I am now a charter member of AA (Aviators Anonymous).

I would almost always have a simulated emergency engine failure every flight lesson.

The instructor would pull the power to idle and just sit there.

He almost had me put it in a field once.

Fun sweaty times.

I took off in an airplane 11 times before I ever landed in one. Landed by an alternate method! The first airplane landing actually scared me, banking what to me was close to the ground, and a steep to me descent. The pilot had a big grin on his face, so I am sure he got what he wanted! He was the pilot who told me on my first jump (static line), you hang up on the tail, wheel strut, or whatever, the next thing you see will be the jump master and me falling past you, so DO IT RIGHT AND DON'T HANG UP!!! The jump masters words were, once you get out on the strut you will not be coming back in!

quote:

Originally posted by walkinghorse:
I took off in an airplane 11 times before I ever landed in one. Landed by an alternate method! The first airplane landing actually scared me, banking what to me was close to the ground, and a steep to me descent. The pilot had a big grin on his face, so I am sure he got what he wanted! He was the pilot who told me on my first jump (static line), you hang up on the tail, wheel strut, or whatever, the next thing you see will be the jump master and me falling past you, so DO IT RIGHT AND DON'T HANG UP!!! The jump masters words were, once you get out on the strut you will not be coming back in!

I've had a few of those interesting ones. The owners pilot (I worked for) landed on Turneffe Island in Belize on a small private gravel runway the owner owned with a 20 knot cross wind and mangroves on both sides.

Another was in a Lear 45 in Treasure Cay, Bahamas. The pilots spooled up the turbines until we started creeping forward on the brakes and we came out of there like a rocket with a steep bank and climb.

quote:

Originally posted by walkinghorse:
I took off in an airplane 11 times before I ever landed in one. Landed by an alternate method! The first airplane landing actually scared me, banking what to me was close to the ground, and a steep to me descent. The pilot had a big grin on his face, so I am sure he got what he wanted! He was the pilot who told me on my first jump (static line), you hang up on the tail, wheel strut, or whatever, the next thing you see will be the jump master and me falling past you, so DO IT RIGHT AND DON'T HANG UP!!! The jump masters words were, once you get out on the strut you will not be coming back in!

When I was a kid, I went to an open house with a local jump club, out of curiosity. They offered a two-for deal; two jumps and the ground school. I went to the class thinking I didn't have to go to the airport, and then to the airport thinking I didn't have to put on the gear. I put on the gear thinking I didn't have to get in the airplane, and when I did get in, I made a point of being last, to have ample time to watch others jump. Being last, however, put me first in the door (poor planning), and when the door opened, I figured I'd follow the command and put my feet out on the gear strut, but didn't need to swing out to stand on the gear.

When the call to swing out came, I did, figuring that I could always get back in. The last part of "swing out" was to shinny out to the end of the strut and hang from the wing strut, which I did. once I got there, however, I found that getting back in would have been impossible. The cherubic face of the young lady jumpmastering me looked angelic when she yelled "go" with a big smile, and when I let go, it was only because it was clearly the only way back down.

We jumped old military gear, and I hit like a sack of wet potatoes. I had no intention of doing the second jump until I got in the back of a truck for the ride back to the airport. A college co-ed was there and she said she was coming back, so I did, too. She never showed...

Great stories!

Thanks for the info.

You live near Smyrna? I'm in Murfreesboro off Fortress and Medical Center.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

quote:

Originally posted by cparktd:

By the way, I've never even been up in a plane. Not scared of them, just never had any reason to.

Don't do it. DO NOT DO IT!

If you're anything like me, you'll be hooked at the first taste. Kind of like the drug pusher in the schoolyard: "Here, kid. The first one's free."

Yup.
It was my dentist (and girlfriend of the time's mom) that first took me up.
2001-ish, 1974 Cessna 150M & I was hooked hard.

Sadly ran out of funding and never finished my PP. Had to stop around 26hrs total logged. Solo'd at 9hrs.

quote:

Originally posted by cparktd:

...I live about 6 or 7 miles from an airport as the crow flies...

You can find a page on the airport here:

https://www.airnav.com/airports/us/TN

If you're 6-7 miles directly east, one of us can explain how that fits in with the traffic patterns.

quote:

Originally posted by alingo2001:
You live near Smyrna? I'm in Murfreesboro off Fortress and Medical Center.

Na, Bell Buckle. Talking about Shelbyville / Bomar Field. KSYI

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
They are just cutting the power, not turning the engine off. Likely as part of their landing approach maneuver, beginning the decent, etc.

Even doing emergency practice for losing an engine, you always leave one running and pull it to idle.

Agree with the other posts that the engine is most likely just throttled back either for a standard final approach or possibly as training to simulate an engine-out scenario...

...having said that I know one former flight instructor who told the story of how he had turned the engine off on a student pilot to simulate an engine-out way high over a corn field...but somehow in the process the ignition key had either been snagged and pulled or just vibrated out, and fell to the floor.

As told by the instructor, he was trying to downplay the missing key, quietly fumbling around the floor trying to find it while the student set up for his otherwise uneventful engine-out approach...apparently he found the key and got the engine fired up just above the top of the corn...and after congratulating his student on a job well done silently vowed to never intentionally turn the key off again and stick to throttle-backs only for training.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
It's generally a poor technique for a routine landing, but it's done a lot.

I’d agree that “chopping” the throttle is not a kind or prudent way to treat an engine. I’d further agree that particularly with some larger aircraft (and especially jets with a slower spool up) a flatter, power on, approach makes for a more stabilized approach. (Though I do remember a flight from LHR to LAX where the captain made his last airline landing power off from a ways up, gliding that 747 to a landing where you heard the wheels spin up, but you didn’t feel a thing.)

Other than those situations though, I don’t know why a pilot wouldn’t make every landing in a light plane power off, other than traffic or ATC forcing one to get too far from the airport. In the relatively unlikely event that you lose an engine, the following landing won’t be some freak thing that you haven’t practiced in years, it will just be another normal approach and landing. You won’t be wondering how the airplane is going to glide, because you’ve done just exactly that on the last whole bunch of landings.

Granted, your approaches (at least in most aircraft) will be steeper than an airline 3% glide slope, but they can be perfectly stable and once you learn how to manage the energy in that aircraft, it works consistently, engine(s) making power or not. In the Travel Air with the gear and flaps out, or in the Pitts S-2B, power off approaches are steeper than most folks are used to. On the other hand, once you get used to them, you start to wonder if the Decathlon is ever going to come down.

Making a landing power off is one thing: snapping the throttle closed at 1,000' and making a power off idle approach to landing is poor technique, and it's not good for the engine, especially if a go-around is required or a touch and go performed.

Certainly one should be proficient at gliding approaches to a landing, in the event of an engine failure or power loss (two different things). One should be proficient in no-flap landings as well as partial and full flap landings, and one should practice forward and side slip approaches, appropriate to the aircraft, routinely to maintain proficiency. That said, making a habit of idle approaches in a light piston engine airplane is poor technique, and generally, poor airmanship. It's also poor practice to snap the throttle to idle on short final, as I see many do. A slow smooth reduction, yes. Snapping to idle, no.

Air cooled engines with fixed shafts, driven by the propeller and experiencing reverse backlash on accessories and internal gearing, bearings, etc, can experience increased wear, stresses, and damage. Carbureted aircraft engines tend to experience large changes in mixture, and greater changes between cylinders. It's good practice to keep manifold pressure at the bottom of the green, in aircraft so equipped, and to keep the engine warm on the approach.

Engine failure and a gliding approach should be second nature in a light airplane. It is NEVER a matter of if an engine failure will occur. Only a matter of when. Basic airmanship dictates maintaining proficiency in engine-out procedures, handling, and of course, landing. That doesn't mean one should abuse the engine on every landing one makes.

quote:

Originally posted by slosig:
(Though I do remember a flight from LHR to LAX where the captain made his last airline landing power off from a ways up, gliding that 747 to a landing where you heard the wheels spin up, but you didn’t feel a thing.)

I suppose it's possible, but as a former 747 captain, I can't recall any instances in which I reduced power to idle and maintained it that way to a touchdown.

The 747 is an easy airplane to make a good landing in, and the gear lends itself very well to smooth landings (though the truth is that a "greaser" is more luck than skill, regardless of the platform). It's all about energy management. There is no tolerance for being low or landing short, due to the length of the airplane and the amount of airplane hanging out behind and below, when landing, and at a 630,000 lb landing weight (in the Classic), getting behind in power management is not a good idea. Use of flap and gear increases power requirements and pre-spooling for approach (for go-around) is a necessity. Response time could be up to 7 seconds and the airplane will bleed a lot of energy in that time if already at 1.2 - 1.3 Vso and configured, and it's unwise to get slow in a swept wing airpalne, especially low. Retarding power early can result in the airplane falling out from under, and it's not recoverable once that begins, given the spool time for the engines. Idle descent to touchdown in an airplane like that is taking a huge gamble, and there is no way to fly a normal, stable glide path, configured, at idle power.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
Making a landing power off is one thing: snapping the throttle closed at 1,000' and making a power off idle approach to landing is poor technique, and it's not good for the engine, especially if a go-around is required or a touch and go performed.

Certainly one should be proficient at gliding approaches to a landing, in the event of an engine failure or power loss (two different things). One should be proficient in no-flap landings as well as partial and full flap landings, and one should practice forward and side slip approaches, appropriate to the aircraft, routinely to maintain proficiency. That said, making a habit of idle approaches in a light piston engine airplane is poor technique, and generally, poor airmanship. It's also poor practice to snap the throttle to idle on short final, as I see many do. A slow smooth reduction, yes. Snapping to idle, no.

Air cooled engines with fixed shafts, driven by the propeller and experiencing reverse backlash on accessories and internal gearing, bearings, etc, can experience increased wear, stresses, and damage. Carbureted aircraft engines tend to experience large changes in mixture, and greater changes between cylinders. It's good practice to keep manifold pressure at the bottom of the green, in aircraft so equipped, and to keep the engine warm on the approach.

Engine failure and a gliding approach should be second nature in a light airplane. It is NEVER a matter of if an engine failure will occur. Only a matter of when. Basic airmanship dictates maintaining proficiency in engine-out procedures, handling, and of course, landing. That doesn't mean one should abuse the engine on every landing one makes.

Thank you. After doing a simulated engine-out (at 5,500') and later on coming back to land at my small airport (3,000' runway) yesterday...these were good words to read and digest.