And the other issue being, if IBM didn't go offshore to cut costs, their competition would, or the competition would be from offshore. They'd have lower prices, and would likely beat IBM for the work.

India has made it a priority to develop IT talent, and it's worked out for them. IT talent is in demand, and it will be used, not matter what our government would try to do about it.

quote:

Originally posted by Rey HRH:

quote:

Originally posted by safespot:

quote:

Originally posted by Rey HRH:
I can't fault IBM for outsourcing. How else can they compete?

How about with quality? Customers will pay a premium for quality.

You have to look at IBM's customers and determine if they will pay a premium for quality. IBM's customers are businesses. For them, quality is defined by the contract. If you meet the terms of the contract, then that's quality. After that, the customer is interested in price.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
If you ask them "Are you in the United States", they are incapable of giving a straight answer to this direct question. Never, not one single time, have I received a straight simple "yes" or "no" to this very basic, very easily understaood question.

I don't give a shit why they tap dance around this simple queston. All I know is that they do tap dance around it, as if their life depends upon defecting it or being as vague as possible.

This is an old article from 2001 but it was a head turner when I first read it. Hi, I'm in Banaglore (but I Can't Say So)

I think now that it's widely known, they are more forthright. Besides, it's just extra cost to train people to have an American accent. Live help chats that I've used lately even displays the name of the technician instead of Mary, Joe, or Steve.

When I went to work in State gov, I noticed a lot of “older” white guys in the IS dept. By “a lot” I mean much higher ratio than other depts who tended to have younger people and more minorities. By older I mean over 40.

The fellows told me that companies dumped them after they turned 40 and hired Pakis and Indians on visas. They can hire 2 for the price of 1American.

A good friend retired from an industrial manufacturing firm that made valves, controllers etc for oil indus use. When hiring new starting engineers, they went through the motions of interviewing recent American grads. They would then declare that no one was suitible, which was bs. Then they hired Indian, Paki or other from overseas on H1B visa. My bud eventually decided to retire. Didn’t want to be part of the big lie.

Biggest open secret today is use of H1b visas to avoid hiring Americans.

quote:

... <snip>
India has made it a priority to develop IT talent, and it's worked out for them. IT talent is in demand, and it will be used, not matter what our government would try to do about it.
<snip> ...

There is a big difference between being able to program and being able to code in a programming language.

quote:

Originally posted by safespot:

quote:

Originally posted by Rey HRH:
I can't fault IBM for outsourcing. How else can they compete?

How about with quality? Customers will pay a premium for quality.

For a very long time IBM led the market place with the highest quality products. Both hardware and software! It started downhill when the senior positions at IBM HQ started being filled with bean counters who had no concept of who the customers actually were, and what had made IBM the leader for decades.

They made John Akers president/CEO and he was the first bean counter type to hold that position. He was also paid a 2.5 million dollar bonus (first time ever done) for his "performance" when the company lost money for the first time!

General Motors did the same thing post bankruptcy, the US call center was closed and transferred to the Phillipines. Limited staff was stateside in Saginaw. This was for internal use between dealerships and the corporation only. Can you say disaster?

It only lasted a couple of years before the corporation announced that they were moving the call center back stateside. They cited "dealer satisfaction" or words to that effect. In other words they got tired of listening to complaints from dealership personnel. They also said that the closure and relocation was not due to the bankruptcy but was decided before it. They could say what they wanted, the timing was pretty suspicious.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
If you ask them "Are you in the United States", they are incapable of giving a straight answer to this direct question. Never, not one single time, have I received a straight simple "yes" or "no" to this very basic, very easily understaood question.

I don't give a shit why they tap dance around this simple queston. All I know is that they do tap dance around it, as if their life depends upon defecting it or being as vague as possible.

I go into the "broken record" mode and just keep repeating the question. Eventually, I will get an answer. Sometimes the "answer" is a hang-up.

THINK!

Because IBM can get Indian workers to work for much less than an American. I swear employers are looking for unicorns these days: 22 years old with 10 years work experience, a masters degree and every soft skill there is. Oh yeah, have to be at least one: minority, gay, female, vegan, crossfitter. The more boxes they can check, the better their chances to get hired.

You mean the guy with the heavy accent calling himself "Chuck" isn't American?

Nailed it!

quote:

Originally posted by Edmond:
Because IBM can get Indian workers to work for much less than an American. I swear employers are looking for unicorns these days: 22 years old with 10 years work experience, a masters degree and every soft skill there is. Oh yeah, have to be at least one: minority, gay, female, vegan, crossfitter. The more boxes they can check, the better their chances to get hired.

You mean the guy with the heavy accent calling himself "Chuck" isn't American?

Their former PC business now Lenovo, has been assisted by the PRC's preference for China first companies.
They then leverage that homefield advantage to win business in America and Europe.

I am amazed when I see Lenovo products in US companies.

The recent Super Micro espionage chip confirms the true long term plan of PRC. They are playing the long game to reign supreme in the future.
That is why Trump is fighting them with Tariffs, a short term but effective wake up call to PRC that we are tired of their games.

HK Ag

Well it's not working in Federal accounts. No Lenovo anything in them. Dell and HP and other made in the US are the only ones considered now.

quote:

Originally posted by valkyrie1:
Well it's not working in Federal accounts. No Lenovo anything in them. Dell and HP and other made in the US are the only ones considered now.

Don't know about now, but several years ago, IBM bid on a big gubbermint program. Our bid was half of the company's bid that got the contract.

Then, we (IBM) had to come up with "temporary" solutions while the winning company tried to invent the hardware to do the job. And we had bid existing state of the art equipment, software, etc.

As end of life approaches on these older machine there's basically nothing to replace them with especially in the server area. Some 5147/48s, Z's and some Enterprise DASD are about it,TS4500's also.

Regarding H1b visa workers pay: Years ago I played golf out wet with a guy who recruited and contracted out Indians for Silicon Valley. Said it was a great gig; made good money bringing the Indians over to work for peanuts. 10 years later I happened to be paired with him again. Asked him how the Hib business was doing. He said it had gone to shit. The Indians woke up and demanded parity, thereby severely cutting his profits. But what really ticked him off was that they were "uppity".