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| Master of one hand pistol shooting  |
We have a lawyer written range shooting safety waiver to be signed by every gun club member and every club guest. We also have a lawyer written covid waiver. Are signatures usually good indefinitely as long as there are no changes? Or should we resign everyone yearly? SIGnature NRA Benefactor CMP Pistol Distinguished | ||
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| Muzzle flash aficionado  |
Is there evidence that those waivers actually have any use in court? flashguy Texan by choice, not accident of birth | |||
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| Member |
They help, but are not a panacea. I'd probably have members sign every year. For guests, have them sign when they become a guest. Have the logbook they sign include language on each page that by signing they are agreeing to the waiver / rules. | |||
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| Member |
if you have a member renewal process then you should get a new one every time they renew. For guests I would get it every time they are on the property. FWIW> “So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.” | |||
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| Master of one hand pistol shooting |
In our case both safety and covid waivers are separate documents. Our sign-in sheet is a stand alone sheet. Guests sign in on one sheet, Sign two separate waivers, Sign a tracking time in-time out sheet We issue a card indicating that the waivers are signed and kept on record to save signing on a following range visit. No card = resign. My question is about the duration of such member and guest signatures. Yearly or indefinite. We hear some grumbling. But most have accepted the process as necessary SIGnature NRA Benefactor CMP Pistol Distinguished | |||
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| drop and give me 20 pushups |
I would be willing to bet good money that those wavers are not worth the paper that they are wrote on and that given certain conditions a good attorney could turn them into toilet paper. Waivers do not release you or your group from from all resposibilities when something goes wrong. Just hope you do not find out the hard way. ......................................... drill sgt. | |||
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Optimistic Cynic |
I can't see how requiring a waiver/release of responsibility to do "X" cannot be otherwise construed as coercive, in other words. not in and of itself abrogating any and all responsibility. So, I have to sign a waiver? == That makes it your problem, not mine! I'm aware that case law has demonstrated otherwise, but c'mon man! | |||
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| Knows too little about too much  |
We make ours renew every year. RMD TL Davis: “The Second Amendment is special, not because it protects guns, but because its violation signals a government with the intention to oppress its people…” Remember: After the first one, the rest are free. | |||
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| Master of one hand pistol shooting |
Our lawyer wrote these. Of course we realize that waivers are not the end all of responsibility. It is my opinion that a yearly waiver signing by members at least serves as a reminder of the risks and rules. Some members and public need a 2x4 reminder either way. SIGnature NRA Benefactor CMP Pistol Distinguished | |||
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| More persistent than capable |
Our guests sign a liability waiver each visit, and a separate sign in sheet. Lick the lollipop of mediocrity once and you suck forever. | |||
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I Deal In Lead |
The members of my shooting squad are required to sign a risk waiver annually. No other waivers required. | |||
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| Member |
My range has us fill out a COVID waiver every time we are there. Because COVID status can change. As for a membership waiver, I am not a lawyer but expect that the waiver will be valid until a member drops his membership. Of course a lawyer on retainer will make some effort to show he deserves that retainer so that lawyer would probably like to see and review yearly waivers just to generate some additional billing hours. I've stopped counting. | |||
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| Member |
^^^^^^^^^^ Do you meet regularly or only when you have an execution? | |||
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| Member |
Off topic, but we lost our range to misappropriations. I miss it, good times, IPDA and good times. I hope the owner feels like absolute SHIT for failing us!! This summer we're going to find a place in Erie, Pa. to continue. I don't remember signing anything, that would be a state to state thing. _________________________________________________ "Once abolish the God, and the Government becomes the God." --- G.K. Chesterton | |||
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eh-TEE-oh-clez |
"Waivers" have their uses. Not everything can be waived. But not everything needs to be. Additionally, most "waivers" aren't *just* waivers. A good one will also have indemnity (e.g., if the member hurts someone else, then the member will indemnify the club against claims from the injured party). Exclusion of damages might be a big one too--if a member's truck catches fire in the parking lot, then the club might be liable for the repair of the truck, but will probably want to exclude lost wages because it was a "work" truck. The language might also have an arbitration provision, a waiver of class action, and assumption of risk. Even something as mundane as choice of law, jurisdiction, or venue can be huge headaches without written agreements. The "waiver" language might also have some representations and warranties: the member signing it reps that he has sufficient training to handle weapons safely, reps that he will abide by posted rules, and that he's not a felon prohibited from using firearms and etc. So, yeah, the boilerplate can be quite significant. | |||
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| I Deal In Lead |
Only when we have an execution. | |||
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I'm Fine |
As many places that use fine print and require acknowledgements - they must serve some purpose and not be entirely useless. I'm sure a nice expensive lawyer can shred some of them, but most people can't afford a good expensive lawyer... ------------------ SBrooks | |||
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Member |
My local range has an electronic waiver, sign it once and you're done. I think I had to redo it once when they changed software, but that's been it. I was a member at first, now I pay as I go but they still have my information on file. "The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people." "Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy." "I did," said Ford, "it is." "So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't the people get rid of the lizards?" "It honestly doesn't occur to them. They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates the government they want." "You mean they actually vote for the lizards." "Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course." "But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?" "Because if they didn't vote for a lizard, then the wrong lizard might get in." | |||
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