By Gordon Corera
Security correspondent, BBC News
Former British military pilots are being lured to China with large sums of money to pass on their expertise to the Chinese military, it is claimed.

Up to 30 former UK military pilots are thought to have gone to train members of China's People's Liberation Army.

The UK is issuing an intelligence alert to warn former military pilots against working for the Chinese military.

Attempts to headhunt pilots are ongoing and had been ramping up recently, western officials say.

A spokesperson from the Ministry of Defence (MoD) said the training ​and the recruiting of pilots does not breach any current UK law but officials in the UK and other countries are trying to deter the activity.

"It is a lucrative package that is being offered to people," said one western official. "Money is a strong motivator." Some of the packages are thought to be as much as £237,911 ($270,000).

The retired British pilots are being used to help understand the way in which Western planes and pilots operate, information which could be vital in the event of any conflict, such as over Taiwan.

"They are a very attractive body of people to then pass on that knowledge," a Western official said. "It's taking Western pilots of great experience to help develop Chinese military air force tactics and capabilities."

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The UK first became aware of a small number of cases of former military pilots being recruited in 2019 which were dealt with on a case-by-case basis. The COVID-19 pandemic slowed attempts down, when travel to China was almost impossible but the attempts have now increased, leading to this alert.

"We've seen it ramp up significantly," a western official said in a briefing to journalists. "It is an ongoing issue." Current serving personnel are being targeted but none are thought to have accepted.

The pilots have experience on fast jets and helicopters and come from across the military and not just the Royal Air Force. They have flown Typhoons, Jaguars, Harriers and Tornados.

F-35 pilots are not thought to be involved although China is thought to be interested in them. Some of the pilots are in their late 50s and left the military some time ago. Pilots of other allied nations have also been targeted.

Officials said they are being recruited through intermediary head-hunters and cited a particular flying academy based in South Africa as being involved.

There is no evidence that any pilots have broken the Official Secrets Act or that they have committed any crime. The aim of the alert is to try and deter activity and inform current staff and industry partners and also remind personnel of their obligations to protect sensitive information.

"We are taking decisive steps to stop Chinese recruitment schemes attempting to headhunt serving and former UK Armed Forces pilots to train People's Liberation Army personnel in the People's Republic of China," an MoD spokesperson said.

"All serving and former personnel are already subject to the Official Secrets Act, and we are reviewing the use of confidentiality contracts and non-disclosure agreements across Defence, while the new National Security Bill will create additional tools to tackle contemporary security challenges - including this one."

Link

Fully support it. Why should politicians and corporations be the only one to profit

quote:

Originally posted by oldbill123:
Fully support it. Why should politicians and corporations be the only one to profit

You support undermining the military in a potential future war because someone besides politicians get paid for something shady. I have that correct?

We really appreciate you having our back, asshole.

Straight up mercenary activity.

Not unusual for countries with nascent industries will offer all sort of monetary incentives to lure over foreign nationals for technical expertise. The vast majority of pilots for many of the Gulf state airlines (Etihad, Emerites, Qatar Air, etc) are UK, Aussie, Kiwi, German & Dutch nationals. 50-years ago Japan, Singapore, South Korea, and Taiwan their airlines early on many of their airline pilots also came from the same pool.

Going to work with China and train-up their military, in this current environment....you gotta be an asshole with no ethics or, you're completely oblivious to the state of affairs going on.

The next 18 months will be critical. If China wants to be effective in a move against Taiwan, it would be before the current occupant of the White House leaves office.

Brits have a long and infamous history of having communist indifference or even outright sympathy amongst themselves. Tories be damned. The lure of big cash as an added incentive? Well that's just icing on the proverbial cake. Not everyone in the Empire loved the Queen and what her kind stands for.

That said; what a prime opportunity for the CIA and their kind to fuck with the PRC's air force...

Seems no one cares about treason. Just accepting the modern value system. No longer fighting against the tide

It is no secret who China is. If you are knowingly going over there to specifically help their military become stronger, or provide them with any kind of an advantage, then I'm not sure as to how you can even look at yourself in the mirror in the morning.

I was last in China in 2014 and this made me think of an Australian pilot that I met in a bar that was there teaching Chinese commercial pilots. However, I cannot equate what he was doing to what these UK pilots are doing.

Also, as I think about this, I can't help but think of how American manufacturing (and other countries) has built up China's industrial strength and overall knowledge on a grand scale, and on multiple levels, in the past few decades....and we did that in the name of good ole profit. They have come a long way in 20 to 30 years.

Other nations have been hiring our people for ages. I know some of the ground officers were being offered huge sums of money to work with the Gulf states in pre-9/11 times. One guy bragged 3-4 years there and he would never have to work again. But the conditions would have been so bad (Arabs treat non-Arabs like shit) it wasn't worth it.

And I'm sure China is smart enough to try to obfuscate their involvement so it would seem like the prospective Westerners might not realize they are working for West Taiwan.

While the implications of this are obvious, there is a problem. Or actually a non-problem for any western national that would do this. There's no law against it (at least in the UK apparently. ) We are not at declared war with the Chinese. In point of fact, we do a vast amount of business with China.

While the defense implications are greater, someone doing this is on the same continuum as any western company that buys goods from China, or even consumers buying those goods. Either the western nations need to make some sort of legal declaration that China is an enemy state, and entirely stop doing business with them, or just let 8t go and deal with what happens down the line. Neither are ideal. Obviously the latter strengthens China. The former would likely worsen the global economic situation, which isn't good to begin with, and could very easily lead directly to a war ( look ad what caused Japan to attack us at the start of WWII. )

So are the pilots being lured to China like victims of Sex Trafficking or are they going there to make an extra buck and leave? If it’s the latter, they aren’t being “lured” over there.

mumblemumble "Optics" mumblemumble ...

Related article.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/ne...-personnel-2015.html

Judge forces US military to reveal that 500 vets are secretly taking jobs of up to $260,000 with foreign governments: 15 generals and admirals are being employed by Saudi Arabia - but DoD won't say how much they are being paid

More than 500 US military personnel have been paid for working as advisors for foreign governments

Retired military personnel are restricted from receiving anything of value from foreign governments that could compromise their sworn allegiance to the US

However if they are given permission by Congress they are allowed to carry out the lucrative work

Two four-star Generals, who worked for President Obama, have both worked for the Defense Ministry of Saudi Arabia

Is China Really Using Ex-UK Military Pilots For Tactics Insights? Sure Seems Like it

quote:

Dozens of British former frontline military pilots have been hired by China to provide training and intelligence to the People’s Liberation Army (PLA), according to reports corroborated by the U.K. Ministry of Defense (MOD). The situation once again highlights the efforts China is willing to go to expand its military know-how and also sheds light on the sometimes-murky world of private defense contractors.

A story published by The Times of London states that “at least 30” pilots who previously served with the U.K. Armed Forces have been recruited by China “to help Beijing develop its tactics and technological expertise.” The pilots involved are said to be mainly former fast-jet aircrew but also include helicopter pilots. All apparently began working for China from the end of 2019 onward and are said to be earning around £240,000 (roughly $270,000) a year.

...

According to the same anonymous official, the pilots in question are teaching the PLA students at a privately run training center in South Africa, the Test Flying Academy of South Africa, or TFASA.

....

In the past, there have also been concerns raised about TFASA’s relationship with the PLA. In May this year, there were reports that Western intelligence services were “on alert” in response to the company’s activities, which apparently included pilot training for the PLA, including by French instructors.
Interestingly, there’s also a video on YouTube that claims to show Chinese students from the TFASA taking part in shooting firearms on a range apparently operated by another South African firm, SFC Tactical Solutions Group. The same company posted the video to its own channel under the title “TFASA October 2021 — Test Flight Academy South Africa with the guest from China.”

....

As far as the US Government is concerned, the US and Saudi Arabia are allies. It's not like we don't have forces stationed in Saudi Arabia. We also sell them a lot of weapons. This being the case it's not at all surprising that ex-us military personnel would be working for them.

quote:

Originally posted by 2BobTanner:
Related article.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/ne...-personnel-2015.html

Judge forces US military to reveal that 500 vets are secretly taking jobs of up to $260,000 with foreign governments: 15 generals and admirals are being employed by Saudi Arabia - but DoD won't say how much they are being paid

More than 500 US military personnel have been paid for working as advisors for foreign governments

Retired military personnel are restricted from receiving anything of value from foreign governments that could compromise their sworn allegiance to the US

However if they are given permission by Congress they are allowed to carry out the lucrative work

Two four-star Generals, who worked for President Obama, have both worked for the Defense Ministry of Saudi Arabia

For all we know it is a two-way street.

They show the Chinese Airforce how to do basic flying. The allies learn the total of the Chicom Airforce. When it comes to Government and their corrupt and not-so-corrupt secret squirrel stuff me as just another taxpayer have no clue.

China’s becoming strong enough militarily to defeat us, or at least—in the short term—send us packing back to cower within our own borders and no farther while dealing with their spies and other fifth columnists, is nothing to worry about. That capability can’t affect us in the slightest, just like “Don’t worry. The invasion of Ukraine will have no effect on this country.”

I don’t care in the slightest what happens to anyone who believes such arrant nonsense, but I do hope I’m not here to see it when it happens—as it assuredly will if enough fools agree.

For anyone seeking a snippet of reality:

Battlegrounds: The Fight to Defend the Free World, H.R. McMaster
Danger Zone: The Coming Conflict with China, Michael Beckley and Hal Brands