Interesting events in Saudi Arabia...since the below article:
Arrested: Prince Alwaleed bin Talal - famous investor
Killed in helicopter crash - another prince
Saudi's claim they intercepted a ballistic missile from Yeman
Killed in attempted "arrest" - another prince
quote:
Saudi Arabia Arrests 11 princes and Dozens of Former Ministers, Senior Saudi Royal Ousted
RIYADH, Saudi Arabia (AP) — Saudi Arabia’s King Salman on Saturday removed a prominent prince who headed the National Guard, replaced the economy minister and announced the creation of a new anti-corruption committee.
The Saudi-owned Al-Arabiya news channel also reported late Saturday that 11 princes and dozens of former ministers were detained in a new anti-corruption probe headed by the kingdom’s powerful Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, who was also named to oversee the new committee.
(Update: Also arrested was Trump Critic and billionaire Prince al-Waleed bin Talal, a prominent investor in US companies including Twitter and Citigroup, the New York Times reported.)
Al-Arabiya reported that the committee is looking into devastating and deadly floods that overwhelmed parts of the city of Jiddah in 2009 and is investigating the Saudi government’s response to the Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS) virus that has killed several hundred people in the past few years.
Meanwhile, the kingdom’s top council of clerics issued a statement saying it is an Islamic duty to fight corruption— essentially giving religious backing to the high-level arrests being reported.
The government said the anti-corruption committee has the right to issue arrest warrants, impose travel restrictions and freeze bank accounts. It can also trace funds, prevent the transfer of funds or the liquidation of assets and take other precautionary measures until cases are referred to the judiciary.
The royal order said the committee was established “due to the propensity of some people for abuse, putting their personal interest above public interest, and stealing public funds.”
Saudi nationals have long complained of rampant corruption in government and of public funds being squandered or misused by people in power.
The 32-year-old crown prince has been seeking to attract greater international investments and improve the country’s reputation as a place to do business. It’s part of a larger effort to diversify the economy away from dependence on oil revenue.
The king ousted one of the country’s highest-level royals from power, removing Prince Miteb bin Abdullah as head of the National Guard. He was replaced by Prince Khalid bin Ayyaf al-Muqrin, who had held a senior post with the guard.
Prince Miteb’s father was the late King Abdullah, who also had led the National Guard and had transformed it into a powerful and prestigious force tasked with protecting the ruling Al Saud family, as well as important holy sites in Mecca and Medina, and oil and gas sites.
Prince Miteb was once considered a contender for the throne. His ouster as head of the National Guard essentially sidelines one of the most formidable rivals to the current crown prince, who has amassed enormous power in less than three years since his father, King Salman, ascended to the throne.
It comes just three months after Prince Mohammed bin Nayef was ousted from the line of succession and from his post as interior minister, overseeing internal security.
With the two princes now sidelined, control of the kingdom’s security apparatus is now largely centralized under Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, who is also defense minister.
The monarch also replaced Minister of Economy and Planning Adel Fakeih with his deputy, Mohammad al-Tuwaijri.
Admiral Abdullah Al-Sultan was also sacked as commander of Saudi Naval Forces and replaced by Admiral Fahd bin Abdullah Al-Ghifaili.
Yeah it is. Statement a couple of days ago about seeking to become a "moderate Muslim country" also. Going go be a wild ride.
"I vowed to myself to fight against evil more completely and more wholeheartedly than I ever did before. . . . That’s the only way to pay back part of that vast debt, to live up to and try to fulfill that tremendous obligation."
Alfred Hornik, Sunday, December 2, 1945 to his family, on his continuing duty to others for surviving WW II.
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The key to enforcement is to punish the violator, not an inanimate object. The punishment of inanimate objects for the commission of a crime or carelessness is an affront to stupidity.
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Originally posted by ArtieS: Yeah it is. Statement a couple of days ago about seeking to become a "moderate Muslim country" also. Going go be a wild ride.
Islam will need a "New Testament" type occurrence--probably a new Prophet, too--before a real "moderate" version can be established, I think. As long as all their holy books require killing infidels I don't see it taking hold.
I believe there are good elements contained in the Islam religion, but until a way is found to incorporate those and sidestep all the violent commandments, there is no way that it can successfully coexist with civilized Western society.
Originally posted by SigJacket: The monarchy there isn’t THAT tied to the religion.
Power politics, old school.
Heck no. Total hypocrites. They all drink and carouse and carry on in the most extreme fashion. Absolute hedonists, to the max. I know this from stories from my Boeing Intl sales contact.
Just Google "Saudi Prince Drugs" or Saudi prince prostitutes" and believe what you see.
RIYADH, Saudi Arabia – Saudi Arabia said its forces intercepted Saturday evening a ballistic missile fired from Yemen toward one of the kingdom's major international airports on the outskirts of the capital, Riyadh.
The missile was fired from across Saudi Arabia's southern border by Yemen's Houthi rebels, who are at war with the kingdom. Several Houthi-owned media outlets, including Al-Masira and SABA, reported the rebels had launched the missile.
The missile was shot down by Saudi air defense forces, with fragments of the missile landing in an uninhabited area north of the capital. Saudi Arabia's Civil Aviation Authority said the missile did not cause any damage to the King Khalid International Airport and that flights were not disrupted.
This is the first time that a Houthi missile has come this close to a heavily populated area, and it appears to be the farthest that such a missile has reached inside Saudi Arabia. Riyadh is around 620 miles (1,000 kilometers) north of the country's border with Yemen.
---------------------------- "Voldemorte himself created his worst enemy, just as tyrants everywhere do! Have you any idea how much tyrants fear the people they oppress? All of them realize that, one day, amongst their many victims, there is sure to be one who rises against them and strikes back!" Book 6 - Ch 23
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Originally posted by flashguy: I believe there are good elements contained in the Islam religion, but until a way is found to incorporate those and sidestep all the violent commandments, there is no way that it can successfully coexist with civilized Western society.
flashguy
What are the good elements? (I'm not challenging you, I'm just curious.) When I researched the subject, the one and only "good" thing I discovered was the ban on alcohol consumption - and even that is something some people would argue isn't necessarily a good thing. Heart specialists insist that alcohol, used in a very conservative method, is good for the heart.
Originally posted by flashguy: I believe there are good elements contained in the Islam religion, but until a way is found to incorporate those and sidestep all the violent commandments, there is no way that it can successfully coexist with civilized Western society.
flashguy
What are the good elements? (I'm not challenging you, I'm just curious.) When I researched the subject, the one and only "good" thing I discovered was the ban on alcohol consumption - and even that is something some people would argue isn't necessarily a good thing. Heart specialists insist that alcohol, used in a very conservative method, is good for the heart.
Trust me, at the highest levels, there is ZERO adherence to true Islamic teachings, at least as far as consuming alcohol and cavorting with pretty foreign prostitutes, are concerned.
The Saudis in power are among the most hedonistic people on earth, in my opinion.
About two weeks ago, the crown price of Saudi Arabia said some interesting things:
quote:
Saudi Arabia will return to moderate, open Islam and 'will destroy extremist ideas', says crown prince
The crown prince of Saudi Arabia has revealed the country will return to moderate, open Islam.
Mohammad bin Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud also announced the kingdom would do more to tackle extremism today.
Speaking at the Future Investment Initiative conference in Riyadh he said: "We want to go back to what we were, the moderate Islam that is open to the world, open to all the religions.
"We will not waste 30 years of our lives dealing with extremist ideas, we will destroy them today".
Prince bin Salman was appointed heir to the throne of Saudi Arabia by his father King Salman earlier this year.
The 32-year-old is seen as the face of the modern kingdom and is the driving force behind its long term economic plan to wean itself off dependence on oil by 2030.
The shit is gonna hit the fan. Either the Crown Prince is assassinated, Saudis spiral into a civil war, or the Iranians strike thinking they have an advantage with all the internal turmoil.
Certifiable member of the gun toting, septuagenarian, bucket list workin', crazed retiree, bald is beautiful club! USN (RET), COTEP #192
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Change is accelerating in Saudi Arabia. Over the weekend King Salman bin Abdulaziz removed his predecessor’s powerful son as head of the national guard. The king detained 11 princes along with current and former ministers on corruption charges. Behind the move is Saudi Arabia’s young reformer, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. He is gambling that the moves will be seen at home and abroad as cleansing the kingdom of tarnished old ways—not as the whim of an authoritarian ruler.
This crackdown is intended to frighten anyone with power—not only the prince’s royal and religious opponents. In a monarchy infamous for widespread malfeasance, an anticorruption campaign means almost every prince and current or former minister is vulnerable to being targeted, detained, blocked from travel, and stripped of his assets. Not even aides and associates are safe. But it’s unlikely the opposition will grow much, as the crown prince has spent the past year taking control of internal security and defense. The message is clear: Get behind reform or be silenced.
Already the Saudi public is tweeting its support. Yet Western investors, whose money and expertise the kingdom needs, are unsure if this campaign is proof of modernization or autocratic business as usual. In Saudi Arabia, the rule of law is the king. So long as he lives, he is all-powerful; once dead, his legacy and projects are at risk. Foreign investors may think this system still entails too many risks.
Prince Mohammed, a millennial popular with young Saudis, is not so much an idealistic social reformer as a pragmatist. He desperately wants to diversify the economy. Standing in his way are decades of dependence on oil and an exploding population of young people lacking education and the will to work. Western assistance will not come without a modern work environment that includes female employees and after-work options such as gyms, movie theaters and night clubs.
The international audience is as important to Prince Mohammed as are the opinions of his own people. To appeal to both, over the past 18 months he has overseen a remarkable liberalization of Saudi society. Citizens now enjoy many long forbidden social freedoms, including the public mixing of unrelated men and women.
The young prince clearly believes that social change is the essential prerequisite for economic modernization. While some of his reforms have been dramatic, the country is still a long way from becoming a diversified, post-oil economy. The growth forecast for this year is zero. Foreign investors are intrigued, but so far few are putting money down. Oil continues to account for nearly 80% of Saudi government revenues, and restraining production hasn’t led to higher prices. The prince may well be right that social change will usher in his economic goals, but freeing society is so far proving easier than retooling the stultified economy.
Saudi Arabia, with its austere brand of fundamentalist Islam, has been a global outlier for decades. It has been a segregated, repressive society that has subjected women to men’s rule and micromanaged every aspect of citizens’ lives—down to the proper way to enter and exit a toilet and how menstruating women must behave. All this to align Muslims with the Islam of the Prophet Muhammad.
Prince Mohammed is rapidly removing the traditional guardrails on Saudi society. Gone are the religious police who enforced gender segregation. Women will be allowed to drive beginning next June. Already some dare to congregate in restaurants without a male guardian. Jogging, hiking and bike riding in mixed company is becoming more popular. Cinema, banned for four decades, will be restored by year’s end, the prince says.
All over Riyadh young Saudis are buying and operating portable food trucks to earn cash, as government cuts generous subsidies. Saudi men are notorious for refusing to do menial work, but these entrepreneurial young men hustle to serve customers hamburgers, chicken wings, tacos, pasta or whatever the truck specializes in. One young man told me last week that he learned business in China while on university scholarship. He works seven-hour days for Airbus—then sells from his food truck late into the night.
Some 40 of these trucks are congregated on an empty lot in northern Riyadh, forming a small outdoor village where young Saudis relax with family or friends. Among the food trucks is one operated by a mother and daughter who are selling Arabic coffee to a line of male customers. The women chat casually with their clients. Only a year ago such forbidden interaction between women and unrelated males most likely would have landed them in jail.
Prince Mohammed is gambling that once Saudis control their personal lives, they will take responsibility for their livelihoods, reducing dependence on government handouts. But food trucks and cinema do not a modern economy make.
So far, the social liberalization has wide support among young Saudis and the acquiescence of the silent majority. The Saudi religious establishment is largely silent while some other conservative critics have been silenced by selective arrest. But if economic growth remains stuck at zero, unhappy royals may not be Prince Mohammed’s greatest threat. A society liberated from its traditional moorings and disappointed with its economic prospects may prove difficult to control.
Prince Mohammed acknowledged as much last month, when he labeled the young generation a “double-edged sword.” Young Saudis, he said, can create a new Saudi Arabia “but if they go the other way, they will bring destruction.”
Originally posted by flashguy: I believe there are good elements contained in the Islam religion, but until a way is found to incorporate those and sidestep all the violent commandments, there is no way that it can successfully coexist with civilized Western society.
flashguy
What are the good elements? (I'm not challenging you, I'm just curious.) When I researched the subject, the one and only "good" thing I discovered was the ban on alcohol consumption - and even that is something some people would argue isn't necessarily a good thing. Heart specialists insist that alcohol, used in a very conservative method, is good for the heart.
It stresses family ties and encourages discipline and regular prayer.
Originally posted by Il Cattivo: The nice thing about an anticorruption campaign is that the corrupt tend to be guilty of a variety of sins.
The worst thing is that NO ONE is completely free of so-called sins.
I applaud the evolution of that hillbilly desert nation and its loony royalty, but throughout history a great many such campaigns are witch hunts masquerading as something more, and are typical power struggles with no real relationship to what's right or just.
It will be interesting to see what this crown price really does with his power and influence.
