Yesterday I put up 6 Light Sockets in my garage.
After completing it, I thought about the grounding wire.
The grounding wire on 14/2 Romex has paper surrounding it which I ripped off.

Now what happens if the grounding wire touches one of the hot wire connecting screws when you jam the wire in the junction box, would this complete the circuit?

I guess the grounding wire could touch both the hot and neutral wire, which would be evident in the circuit breaker tripping.

If the circuit breaker did not trip, is all good or do I need to go back and look at how the wires were positioned?

Lamp Socket

Hot to ground would/should pop breaker.

Yes, and If not you should use a circuit tester, possible neutral and hot are mixed up, or a bad ground,

The tester will tell you. and they are low cost.

quote:

Originally posted by kimber1911:
Now what happens if the grounding wire touches one of the hot wire connecting screws when you jam the wire in the junction box, would this complete the circuit?

"One of?" There's only one. The other is neutral. If everything is wired correctly and the ground wire touches the hot connection: Yes.

quote:

Originally posted by kimber1911:
I guess the grounding wire could touch both the hot and neutral wire, ...

Nope.

If you looked inside your distribution panel (aka: circuit breaker box) you'd find neutral and (earth) ground tied to the same bus.

quote:

Originally posted by kimber1911:
If the circuit breaker did not trip, is all good ...

Absolutely not!

Just take the unused ground wire and stick it someplace out-of-the-way. Even 14/2 is fairly stiff. It's unlikely to move.

This is assuming the junction box isn't metal. If it is: The ground wire is tied to the box.

Are you asking hypothetical or has the hot/neutral and ground come in contact and the breaker not trip?



Current supplied on "hot", load (powered device) is satisfied, current returns on second hot (240v) or on neutral (120V).

If the "supply and return" is not balanced, a breaker of other protection (GCFI) will trip due to the ground fault.

That said, in many cases, subpanels are often wrongly wired where the ground and the neutral are "tied" and the ground is also bonded to the panel. This provides multiple ground path back to the main disconnect (main panel), and GFCI/other breakers/devices may not function correctly and the ground fault protection fails.

There is more, but this is often most overlooked as earlier code allowed such wiring.

As newer technology for protection are introduced, the older installations may reveal issues.

If you can take a picture of your panel with the cover plate removed this first step can be resolved.


If ground wire touches neutral wire, it creates and incorrect return path, it it touches the "hot" it is a dead short.
If neutral and hot touch, it is also considered a dead short as it is greater current than the wire can handle. (fire/destruction of the wire)

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
That said, in many cases, subpanels are often wrongly wired where the ground and the neutral are "tied" and the ground is also bonded to the panel.

...

There is more, but this is often most overlooked as earlier code allowed such wiring.

How earlier is "earlier?"

We had our service upgraded from 100A to 200A and the fuse box replaced with a breaker panel in ±2000. Ground and neutral are tied together.

I'm not an electrician, but I've never seen it otherwise.

Ground/neutral/enclosure bonded on main/first disconnect.

Any and all subpanels do not bond ground to neutral or enclosure.

The neutral bar/bus is isolated from the enclosure, and the ground bar/buss (often remove green screw and/or bonding strap/tie bar/bus).

I had to look up the date, as it changed after I got out of construction (home building). It was 1996.

I'm not anything resembling an electrician.
My understanding is that while ground and neutral are mostly the same thing, they are not under codes from the last half century or so and require distinctly different connections.
Neutral comes in from the power company along with the hot wire, ground is a ground bar installed normally just outside your house.
Real electricians can comment with the specifics.

.

I am not an electrician, military electronics training though. Done a lot of my own home wiring replacing fixtures, adding outlets, generator switch over, hot tub circuit, etc.

I just follow the basic rules of “none o them wires should touch each other unless they the same color”.


Haven’t burned anything down yet…

No comment on the wiring as that's been pretty well covered, but I wonder what you didn't go with LED tube lighting. IMHO, they provide a lot more light efficiently and probably need fewer fixtures. Just a thought.

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:...
My understanding is that while ground and neutral are mostly the same thing....

They are not, and the "use of the word "ground" incorrectly results in confusion and misunderstanding.

In (most) residential, it is single phase, supplied from the power company, and to keep this simple, this example is where the power comes from the transformer to the house and we start at the "house side" of the meter base.


There are three conductors from the meter to the house "first disconnect". This is either a "Main Panel", or a "Service Panel".

(typical, but there are variations)

The "First Disconnect" is a means of disconnecting power that the homeowner or electrician has access to after the meter.

If the "First Disconnect" is in a panel and then feeds to another panel such as the primary circuit breaker panel, then that Primary Panel is a Sub Panel.

If the If the "First Disconnect" is right after the meter, and it also contains the primary circuit breaker panel, then it is a Main Panel (also referred to as "First Disconnect", and is not a subpanel).

The distinction is that the "First Disconnect" is the "first" place that service can be interrupted by the "homeowner" or electrician doing work after the meter.

Sub panel is any panel after the "First Disconnect", where the "originating service at the first disconnect" has Load 1, Load 2, Neutral and Ground, properly configured with Load 1 and Load 2 "split" to individual bus, and the Neutral bus, Ground bus, Ground rod(s) and enclosure(s) bonded to each other on a common bus.

Then any panel(s) connected, parallel (separate) or in series (daisy chain) are subpanels.

Power/current comes in on Load, "powers" the "load" (appliance/lights etc.) and then the current "returns to the plant" via the neutral (in 120v).

For 220, both Load 1 and Load 2 are used to supply and return the current to/from the "plant".

(The equation must balance)

Now, the issue with "ground" wording is that the "neutral" is not a "current carrying conductor".

If the load is balanced, the net current is "zero" on the neutral, and if the load is not balanced, a ground fault condition exists.

But a neutral is often called a "grounded conductor" because of the bonding to the ground bus/ground rod path.

The ground is primarily designed to shunt surges that can be introduced from the service before the "first disconnect" and energize the home's electrical system, from anything that can cause a surge.

Second, is the ground protects the home's electrical system and "upstream" into the power grid from "lightning" or anything that could introduce "backflow" to the grid, as the "over current surge/spike will seek "ground" and the "ground path" is provided by ground wiring, bus and rod(s).

Because the current supplied needs to balance to the plant, if the neutral path back, fails at any point, the current will seek ground, providing a "specific and controlled" path (of less resistance" will help get that energy back to the first disconnect as safely as possible if the protection (breaker/GFCI, etc) do not interrupt power first as they should in a ground fault condition).

Having subpanels neutral and ground bonded provide multiple paths back to the plant, and that is were the danger lies as current will be conducted along any path.

The old saying, "least path of resistance" can be misunderstood as "the least path of resistance is the (only) path taken".

The better way is to say: "current will take any and all paths available". Knowing this is key to understand the why of properly use of conductors and grounds to safely and effectively supply and return all current, as well protect people, circuits and objects connected, as well as properly path surges, spikes etc. to ground.

The complexity due to the way we use appliances and the need for greater "built in safety and redundancy", result in newer technology and methods to meet that need, hence updated components and methods to connect it all to work without a homeowner needing to know if they can buy a typical appliance, plug it in and use it.

(And why things like EV Chargers come with "all those instructions), as over time, there exist electrical systems that are not "plug and play".

Or why anytime an "upgrade/remodel", like replacing HVAC/R, adding a pool, hot tub, a new shop etc. require "update to code", and the need of pulling permits and having inspections.

"For want of a screw..."

quote:

Originally posted by 6guns:
No comment on the wiring as that's been pretty well covered, but I wonder what you didn't go with LED tube lighting. IMHO, they provide a lot more light efficiently and probably need fewer fixtures. Just a thought.

My thought was that tube lights tended to project light downward where as the GE Ultra-Bright would project the light over a larger area.
GE Ultra Bright Daylight LED 300-Watts using only 33 watts (4500 lumens)

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
Are you asking hypothetical or has the hot/neutral and ground come in contact and the breaker not trip?

I was asking a hypothetical question.

After putting up the light sockets, it was something that crossed my mind, that I just jammed the wires into the junction box without regard to the position of the ground wires.

The light sockets have a large contact area that could easily touch the ground wire, see here.

Looking at the packaging there are instructions for turning off power and connecting the black wire to the brass screw and the white wire to the silver screw.
It says nothing about the ground wire.
Two warnings on packaging.
1. Turn power off at circuit breaker and test that power is off.
2. To avoid danger of suffocation, keep plastic bag away from babies and children. Do not use in cribs, beds, carriages, or playpens. This is not a toy.

Given they warn the user about the plastic bag, surely they would warn the user about positioning the grounding wire.
Of videos I have watched on YouTube, none stated anything about positioning the grounding wire.

This had me thinking maybe the positioning of the bare ground wire may not be a critical issue.
The ground wire is not protected with a plastic coating.
The design of the lamp socket has a large area which could easily touch the grounding wire.

There has got to be thousands of people who just jam the wires back in the junction box.
Maybe it is not a concern, which is why I thought to ask on SigFoum, I was a bit baffled.

It all seemed odd to me with no warning and the component design, which would readily allow for contact of the ground wire and connection screws.
Yet no warning on the packaging nor mentions that I saw on YouTube videos.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by kimber1911:
Now what happens if the grounding wire touches one of the hot wire connecting screws when you jam the wire in the junction box, would this complete the circuit?

"One of?" There's only one. The other is neutral. If everything is wired correctly and the ground wire touches the hot connection: Yes.

"One of?"

Yes the Light Socket has two Brass screws and two silver screws. (Total of 4 screws)
I used one Brass screw with black wire coming into the light socket and the other Brass screw for black wire going to next light socket.
I used one Silver screw with white wire coming into the light socket and the other Silver screw for white wire going to the next light socket.

quote:

Originally posted by kimber1911:
"One of?"

Yes the Light Socket has two Brass screws and two silver screws. (Total of 4 screws)

Ok. Well, then, yes: If the ground wire touches either of the brass-colored screws to which "hot" (usually black) is connected: A short circuit or ground fault will occur.

I predict one of three things will occur.

1. The breaker will open to stop the flow of current.

2. The breaker will not open to stop the flow of current, and all the power delivered by your local grid will flow through those tiny wires as it seeks ground, and cause a huge fire.

3. There will be a mighty flash, and you will be able to divide by 0.