And just to clarify, from a legal standpoint, you're not repossessing the car. Should you go and get it yourself and the police show up, don't use that word at all. It would be best if your sister was there herself, as she's just taking her car.

When I was in the repossession business we did work for private entities pretty regularly. One of the most common non-bank customers were dealerships. Not because they financed a car that somebody didn't pay for, but rather test drives and demos that were never returned. They were in the same boat you're in. If you let somebody take it, it's not (necessarily) stolen, and the police can not get involved if that's the case. It was their property that they allowed somebody else to take, and those people simply refused to return it. The laws will vary from state to state, but in Missouri the failure to return a rental would be a clear cut theft, with other situations being case by case.

The other area you would need to be concerned about is any personal property she has in the car. If you drive off with your car, but her stuff inside, you may be the one charged with theft. This is why I suggested hiring a pro. They work there and know how to walk the line. If you go yourself, make sure you know exactly what you're doing so that you don't get caught up in anything.

Since it is your sister's car, I think she should just go get it. You'll have to solve the key problem. Take the title, or at least a copy.

You may wish to check California law to make sure you aren't violating any statute. I have no idea whether your sister has relinquished any right under California law by allowing her to keep it for so long.

Car is on the other side of the country. No way does the daughter think anything is going to happen.

Parents can have strained relationships with their children for life. Not just late 20's.

Kid will never respect you if you don't deal with the car. Refuse to be a doormat

That's been my experience

quote:

Originally posted by vthoky:

quote:

Originally posted by 2012BOSS302:
I would just sign it over to her and chalk it up.

This is part of the issue. Sis has handed over the title and said, "go put it in your name." Daughter has been simply too stubborn/lazy/self-absorbed to go do it... for several months.

quote:

Originally posted by 2012BOSS302:
Have sis send CA DMV notice she no longer owns it and transferred it to daughter. Tell daughter it is on her at that point.

This is an interesting approach. I believe Sis has some investigating to do. (It does sort of reward Daughter's bad behavior, but it clears Sis of some liability.)

quote:

Originally posted by Powers77:
I vote for Sis and her man to fly out there to pick it up. <snip> I'd then take it to Carmax and sell it. Use proceeds to fund the trip and if there's any extra I'd extend for a little vacation.

I like this plan!

quote:

Originally posted by downtownv:
Tell Princess to play nice ore the car will be reported stolen.

At this point, I believe this has been done.

You stated above that your sister handed over the title and said, "go put it in your name." I would assume in doing this your sister had to sign the title (relinquishing ownership of the car) in front of a notary. If so, does your sister have any remaining title to the car? Sounds like the daughter, if pushed to do so, could produce a legal notarized document assigning ownership to her? Just something to consider if and when proof of ownership comes into play.

quote:

Originally posted by SpinZone:
You and sis fly out to ca, get in the car and leave without giving the daughter the time of day.

Stop and get the car cleaned and serviced.

Spend a week or 2 with your sister sightseeing across the country posting pictures of all the fun you are having here.

She can drop you off in va and head south.

or just have Sis fly out,
work it out with the daughter , either have it titled correctly or take it to carmax,

if they get along, great, if not, just get the car gone and fly back

Not clear, the OP states it's titled in CA, in whose name is it titled, Sis or Joint...

If it's the sisters name, then find a repo company and see what they need to go retrieve it, have them take it to car max, sell it, get the cash and pay back mom.

To understand if the repo fee is worth it, add up gas, hotel, meals for the drive, airfare to CA, and any other expenses in obtaining the car as well as the value of the car and if it's in condition to be driven 2000 miles. What if it needs $500 in new tires, oil change, etc.

Pretty sure by the time you add up the travel, repairs if needed gas, etc itd be better to sell it there.

If it's a jointly held title, then, call the CA DMV, ask them how to be removed from the title as you are gifting the car to the other owner.

Make a decision from there on what to do.

quote:

You stated above that your sister handed over the title and said, "go put it in your name." I would assume in doing this your sister had to sign the title (relinquishing ownership of the car) in front of a notary. If so, does your sister have any remaining title to the car? Sounds like the daughter, if pushed to do so, could produce a legal notarized document assigning ownership to her? Just something to consider if and when proof of ownership comes into play.

Unless this part of the story is inaccurate, I agree the car is the daughter's and the Sis is just SOL for not getting payment or a promissory note in advance of signing over title.

If there is any, I mean ANY risk of that I'd just let it go rather than get in a situation of inadvertently stealing a car.

Oh - and change the will, letting this POS kid know exactly why and when that happens. With or without the lottery.

quote:

This is part of the issue. Sis has handed over the title and said, "go put it in your name." Daughter has been simply too stubborn/lazy/self-absorbed to go do it... for several months.

Did Sis sign the back of the title and give it to Daughter? If so, she made a gift, unless there was a written agreement to make payments.

That was my thought and the reason for the question as to in who's name is the car titled.

If it's been signed over and you fly out take a spare key and drive off with that car you just stole a car...

For crying out loud, this is really stupid.

First off, this is your sisters problem with her daughter. It doesn't concern you and you should not get involved.

She'd rather donate the car to charity than allow her daughter the continued use of the car? Over an argument? Does she want to burn that bridge and NEVER talk to her daughter ever again? Is it worth it?

Tell your sister to grow up, stop acting like a child, and make adult decisions here.

And yeah, based on what you said, it already sounds like your sister already GAVE the car to the daughter, so the car appears to fully belong to her. IF it ever went to court for whatever reason, it would appear that the daughter would win any civil or legal actions and the mother would stand there in front of the court looking stupid.

Sounds like the appropriate response is for them to work out their differences in a civil manner without getting all bent out of shape and yelling, or flying across the country to steal a car and prove a point, and forever throw away that relationship.

If you are a 22-25 year old girl, and your mom "steals" your car that she already gave to you, to prove some petty point, are you likely to ever want to talk to her again? Doubtful.

If Sis signed the title, she effectively “sold” the car. It has been a long time since I’ve sold a car, so maybe things have changed, but it did not used to be case case that the signature on the back of the title was notarized in CA.

As someone mentioned earlier, Sis’s best option may be to fill out a report of transfer form (or whatever they are called and send it to the DMV. She’ll have no further liability from that point on, and if daughter fails to register the car in her name she may suffer some headaches (natural consequences).

ETA: It is called a Notice of Transfer and Release of Liability. Sis may be able to handle that online from the comfort of wherever she’d like:

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/...l/online/nrl/welcome

quote:

Originally posted by bubbatime:
For crying out loud, this is really stupid.

First off, this is your sisters problem with her daughter. It doesn't concern you and you should not get involved.

She'd rather donate the car to charity than allow her daughter the continued use of the car? Over an argument? Does she want to burn that bridge and NEVER talk to her daughter ever again? Is it worth it?

Tell your sister to grow up, stop acting like a child, and make adult decisions here.

And yeah, based on what you said, it already sounds like your sister already GAVE the car to the daughter, so the car appears to fully belong to her. IF it ever went to court for whatever reason, it would appear that the daughter would win any civil or legal actions and the mother would stand there in front of the court looking stupid.

Sounds like the appropriate response is for them to work out their differences in a civil manner without getting all bent out of shape and yelling, or flying across the country to steal a car and prove a point, and forever throw away that relationship.

If you are a 22-25 year old girl, and your mom "steals" your car that she already gave to you, to prove some petty point, are you likely to ever want to talk to her again? Doubtful.

Well said.

quote:

Originally posted by Kyjondeere:
You stated above that your sister handed over the title and said, "go put it in your name." I would assume in doing this your sister had to sign the title (relinquishing ownership of the car) in front of a notary. If so, does your sister have any remaining title to the car? Sounds like the daughter, if pushed to do so, could produce a legal notarized document assigning ownership to her? Just something to consider if and when proof of ownership comes into play.

The title issue, I need to check on. I may not have all the details I thought I did, but I'll learn more when we talk tonight.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
Not clear, the OP states it's titled in CA, in whose name is it titled, Sis or Joint...

Based on yesterday's conversation, I believe it's titled to Sis at the moment, in CA. Again, I'll need to ask for clarification tonight.

quote:

Originally posted by Georgeair:
Unless this part of the story is inaccurate, I agree the car is the daughter's and the Sis is just SOL for not getting payment or a promissory note in advance of signing over title.

I see your point, but at this point Sis' primary concern isn't about being SOL about the money owed... there's no lien on the car at all, and the remaining monetary agreement is between Sis and mom. Sis' bigger concern is either a) regaining possession of it and then getting free of it, or b) Daughter getting off her tail and re-titling the car, again so as to free Sis of any liability for it. There's a lesson in this (slosig mentions "natural consequences"), and Daughter is overdue to learn it --> "There's only so long you can live off of someone else's money, even if that someone else is family."

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
That was my thought and the reason for the question as to in who's name is the car titled.

If it's been signed over and you fly out take a spare key and drive off with that car you just stole a car...

I see your point, HRK, but if the title hasn't been handed over to DMV for the transfer, has the transfer been fully executed? (I'm not being argumentative; I simply don't know.). Similar: Friend A once sold a motorcycle to Friend B who didn't re-title it. A while later, Friend A bought it back and Friend B handed him the title that he (Friend A) had signed at the time of the original sale. How did that title get handled? I don't know.

quote:

Originally posted by bubbatime:
Tell your sister to grow up, stop acting like a child, and make adult decisions here.

Not to be argumentative, but: It's her daughter who's acting like a child. Sis has provided Daughter very detailed steps on how to transfer ownership (and responsibility). Daughter hasn't gotten off her butt to get it done, and turns around complaining about a car that's been provided for her for two years. If you knew/heard the conversations between them, you'd see very clearly that Sis has her doo-doo in a proper pile, and Daughter is being a spoiled, Californicated, little brat.

quote:

Originally posted by slosig:
As someone mentioned earlier, Sis’s best option may be to fill out a report of transfer form (or whatever they are called and send it to the DMV. She’ll have no further liability from that point on, and if daughter fails to register the car in her name she may suffer some headaches (natural consequences).

ETA: It is called a Notice of Transfer and Release of Liability. Sis may be able to handle that online from the comfort of wherever she’d like

Thank you. I'll suggest Sis look into this.

quote:

but if the title hasn't been handed over to DMV for the transfer, has the transfer been fully executed?

For the legal purposes that involve taking the car, yes. Just because she hasn't jumped through the hoops required by the state doesn't mean she doesn't have legal ownership.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
For the legal purposes that involve taking the car, yes. Just because she hasn't jumped through the hoops required by the state doesn't mean she doesn't have legal ownership.

Thank you.

That said, what happens if Daughter is cooperative and hands back the car and the signed title?

If I'm reading the OP correctly, the car is now titled in the daughter's name. If this is correct, and the sister just took it, she'd be guilty of auto theft. AFAIK, the title is the definitive document of ownership.

I kinda think the sister (mother) is screwed on this one.

quote:

Originally posted by SpinZone:
You and sis fly out to ca, get in the car and leave without giving the daughter the time of day.

Stop and get the car cleaned and serviced.

Spend a week or 2 with your sister sightseeing across the country posting pictures of all the fun you are having here.

She can drop you off in va and head south.

quote:

Originally posted by bubbatime:
For crying out loud, this is really stupid.

First off, this is your sisters problem with her daughter. It doesn't concern you and you should not get involved.

She'd rather donate the car to charity than allow her daughter the continued use of the car? Over an argument? Does she want to burn that bridge and NEVER talk to her daughter ever again? Is it worth it?

Tell your sister to grow up, stop acting like a child, and make adult decisions here.

And yeah, based on what you said, it already sounds like your sister already GAVE the car to the daughter, so the car appears to fully belong to her. IF it ever went to court for whatever reason, it would appear that the daughter would win any civil or legal actions and the mother would stand there in front of the court looking stupid.

Sounds like the appropriate response is for them to work out their differences in a civil manner without getting all bent out of shape and yelling, or flying across the country to steal a car and prove a point, and forever throw away that relationship.

If you are a 22-25 year old girl, and your mom "steals" your car that she already gave to you, to prove some petty point, are you likely to ever want to talk to her again? Doubtful.

Having read this, this is the right advice.

I'm good with your summary, bigeinkcmo, up to the point of "Mom gives the daughter some trinkets, maybe x dollars to help...."

[vthoky's opinion] Good grief, Sis has provided about $8K worth of "trinkets" as I see it, making the payments on the car for the time Daughter has had it in CA. [/vthoky's opinion]

The bottom line is that Mom loss ownership of the car as soon as she signed over the title. She no longer has a Legal Right to "repossess" the car

That it is still in Mom's name has as much to do with Monm's inaction as Daughter's. All mom has to do is file a Release of Liability with CA DMV...transferring the car to Daughter.

Daughter then becomes responsible for registration and insurance on the car

Daughter could trade the car in for something she wants. Mom could fly to Cali and discuss face to face. Depends on how much money you want to throw at this. Relationship is most likely toast and that may be a good thing in the long haul